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SWP expulsions and squabbles

All the new members on here who have recently left the swp. You are going to get a lot of stick. But 'stick' with it, you have been a part of an organisation which has constantly lied to you about the rest of the left, and the world as well, in order to aggrandise its own role ( and that especially of its leadership).
You have a lot to unlearn, and much to learn!
 
barney_pig said:
All the new members on here who have recently left the swp. You are going to get a lot of stick. But 'stick' with it, you have been a part of an organisation which has constantly lied to you about the rest of the left, and the world as well, in order to aggrandise its own role ( and that especially of its leadership).
You have a lot to unlearn, and much to learn!
Click to expand...
former swappies of the world unite...
 
Pickman's model said:
former swappies of the world unite...
Click to expand...
Very unlikely, but the numbers would make for a fairly large party. There must have been tens of thousands who have passed through it's ranks at some point since its inception in 1977. It would be interesting to know how many are still active socialists, and how many have been put off politics for life following their involvement.
 
Das Uberdog said:
the ISN, with one or two honourable exceptions, was formed from the worst strata of SWP members... often those most responsible for the hyper-claustrophobic anti-discursive atmosphere and culture within the organisation. i'm pretty sceptical of anyone for whom it took these rape allegations to realise that there was something wrong inside the party and wrong with party democracy. far better socialists have been being barred from the SWP for years on spurious grounds of sexism, bigotry etc by exactly this bunch of intersectionalists who until now were quite happy to endorse the internal culture of bullying and dishonesty.
Click to expand...

What about the Leatherite headbangers? Surely the worst strata are the loyalist drones? Seems like a pretty fair characterization of ISNers apart from this.

On a related note, the ISN now seems beset by internal recriminations and navel-gazing over its own internal culture. Riven by a deep split between "reclaim the IS tradition" sentimentalists and Intersectionalistas it seems. Plus cliques within cliques. Is it true Seymour received #001 when the membership cards were handed out? Can't see any sort of future for this outfit. Bolshie will be very happy. No life out there in the swamp.
 
barney_pig said:
All the new members on here who have recently left the swp. You are going to get a lot of stick. But 'stick' with it, you have been a part of an organisation which has constantly lied to you about the rest of the left, and the world as well, in order to aggrandise its own role ( and that especially of its leadership).
You have a lot to unlearn, and much to learn!
Click to expand...
It's like the Phil K Dick story with the people in the tanks underground being told there is a war going on above
 
tedsplitter said:
Word from the Kremlin: http://swp.org.uk/content/central-committee-statement-20-december-2013
Click to expand...

The gall of this shower:

"As was reported to conference, there is no way that a lay panel of members can determine whether an email account has been hacked... The panel was able to say with total confidence that the CC had not acted in the way that was alleged. This is not a matter that requires specialist technical knowledge."

But a panel of leading members is able to determine whether our close colleague and national secretary is guilty of rape. Doesn't require specialist technical knowledge either, right?
 
And this! "To claim that the majority of members, class fighters who argue with those around them each day, acquiesce without question to the “leadership” is an extraordinary insult."

pre-sweetened-kool-aid.jpg

A leading member offers refreshment to a young class fighter
 
barney_pig said:
All the new members on here who have recently left the swp. You are going to get a lot of stick. But 'stick' with it, you have been a part of an organisation which has constantly lied to you about the rest of the left, and the world as well, in order to aggrandise its own role ( and that especially of its leadership).
You have a lot to unlearn, and much to learn!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your words of solace! Why, even as we speak I can feel the scales starting to drop from my eyes!

Seriously, though, a lot of us have realised for a long, long time that we were being lied to but for whatever reason - cowardice, force of habit, lack of any obvious alternative - we have chosen to bite our tongues and stay on board. Nothing noble in that & no excuses. What it doesn't mean, however, is that we emerge into the light as completely naive neonates who have learned nothing during our time in the party. Of course, we're well aware that the branding as 'sectarian' of anyone else on the left (especially when they were criticising the SWP) was hypocritical nonsense. But surely we can still reserve the right to be critical of other groups, especially when we get a whiff of some of the same self-righteous tropes at play in them, for example a refusal to apply the same merciless criteria in self-analysis that they employ with everybody else.

My barney with the SP comrades last night, which I now feel rather foolish about and for which I apologise insofaras I was at fault (which I don't think I was completely), really wasn't occasioned either by a sectarian hangover from the SWP or even by seeing them through a one-size-fits-all lens based on my experience of the SWP, so much as by what I perceived at the time as a disproportionately aggressive response to a few rather flippant & snarky (& probably unfair) remarks I made about their organisation. That did, I'm afraid, remind me of some SWPers' reactions to similarly trivial goads. I'd had a rotten day & a few beers to forget about it & they got my dander up. I'll try & make sure it doesn't happen again. The last thing I want to do is to descend into the puerile (& at times sexist!) name calling that some of your contributors indulge in.
 
eoin_k said:
sheep-voting.jpg




[. . .] Am I right in thinking that the slate recommended by the majority of the old CC has always been elected? Does anybody know what the largest share of the vote received by an alternative slate has been?
Click to expand...

a) When did IS/SWP adopt the CC slate electoral method? Was it 1975 after expelling the last of the Higgins people? Anyway, since its re-branding as SWP in 1977, & until this year, I believe there was only one contested election, 2006:
outgoing-CC slate 208, Molyneux slate 57, abstentions 11 (Weekly Worker, 12Jan06)

Guess who said this:
"I intend to stand on a simple platform with two main planks:
(1) The need to face reality: I want to see more realism, more honesty and more balance in our political perspectives and in regard to the state of the party.
(2) The need for a more democratic culture in the party: I want to see more open debate and more involvement with the national committee and party members in decision-making."
http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/606/why-i-intend-to-stand (John Molyneux's statement for the Jan 2006 Annual Conference)

b) Three interesting accounts of the slate electoral method:
i) the Bolsheviks never used this method. (You can read that again, slowly.) Like the almost universal practice elsewhere in the labour & socialist movement they used the 'popularity contest' method (as denigrated within the SWP), voting for the individuals they thought best for the job. The slate made its first appearance at the 10th Party Congress, 1921, & it was never replaced:
http://www.karlmarx.net/topics/democratic-centralism-1/theoriginofthe‘slatesystem’ (Pat Byrne, 2010)
ii) how the united (shock, horror) British Trots, the Revolutionary Communist Party, approached the matter in 1945:
https://splinteredsunrise.wordpress...tem-of-election-and-bolshevik-tradition-1945/ (anon., but almost certainly Denzil Harber, then 36)
iii) 'Slates, Factions, & the British SWP':
http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=4268 (Pham Binh, Jan 2013; this has link to John Riddell on slates in the Comintern)
 
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Jara Handala said:
a) When did IS/SWP adopt the CC slate electoral method? Was it 1975 after expelling the last of the Higgins people? Anyway, since it's re-branding as SWP in 1977, & until this year, I believe there was only one contested election, 2006:
outgoing-CC slate 208, Molyneux slate 57, abstentions 11 (Weekly Worker, 12Jan06)

Guess who said this:
"I intend to stand on a simple platform with two main planks:
(1) The need to face reality: I want to see more realism, more honesty and more balance in our political perspectives and in regard to the state of the party.
(2) The need for a more democratic culture in the party: I want to see more open debate and more involvement with the national committee and party members in decision-making."
http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/606/why-i-intend-to-stand (John Molyneux's statement for the Jan 2006 Annual Conference)

b) Three interesting accounts of the slate electoral method:
i) the Bolsheviks never used this method. (You can read that again, slowly.) Like the almost universal practice elsewhere in the labour & socialist movement they used the 'popularity contest' method (as denigrated within the SWP), voting for the individuals they thought best for the job. The slate made its first appearance at the 10th Party Congress, 1921, & it was never replaced:
http://www.karlmarx.net/topics/democratic-centralism-1/theoriginofthe‘slatesystem’ (Pat Byrne, 2010)
ii) how the united (shock, horror) British Trots, the Revolutionary Communist Party, approached the matter in 1945:
https://splinteredsunrise.wordpress...tem-of-election-and-bolshevik-tradition-1945/ (anon., but almost certainly Denzil Harber, then 36)
iii) 'Slates, Factions, & the British SWP':
http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=4268 (Pham Binh, Jan 2013; this has link to John Riddell on slates in the Comintern)
Click to expand...
Spot on, Jara Handala! The slate system has always been a cynical undemocratic manoeuvre to keep ownership of the party in the hands of a tiny self-appointed clique. I hope SWPers of a more open-minded bent than the likes of Bolshieboy read this & follow your links.
 
Jara Handala said:
a) When did IS/SWP adopt the CC slate electoral method? Was it 1975 after expelling the last of the Higgins people? Anyway, since it's re-branding as SWP in 1977, & until this year, I believe there was only one contested election, 2006:
outgoing-CC slate 208, Molyneux slate 57, abstentions 11 (Weekly Worker, 12Jan06)

Guess who said this:
"I intend to stand on a simple platform with two main planks:
(1) The need to face reality: I want to see more realism, more honesty and more balance in our political perspectives and in regard to the state of the party.
(2) The need for a more democratic culture in the party: I want to see more open debate and more involvement with the national committee and party members in decision-making."
http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/606/why-i-intend-to-stand (John Molyneux's statement for the Jan 2006 Annual Conference)

b) Three interesting accounts of the slate electoral method:
i) the Bolsheviks never used this method. (You can read that again, slowly.) Like the almost universal practice elsewhere in the labour & socialist movement they used the 'popularity contest' method (as denigrated within the SWP), voting for the individuals they thought best for the job. The slate made its first appearance at the 10th Party Congress, 1921, & it was never replaced:
http://www.karlmarx.net/topics/democratic-centralism-1/theoriginofthe‘slatesystem’ (Pat Byrne, 2010)
ii) how the united (shock, horror) British Trots, the Revolutionary Communist Party, approached the matter in 1945:
https://splinteredsunrise.wordpress...tem-of-election-and-bolshevik-tradition-1945/ (anon., but almost certainly Denzil Harber, then 36)
iii) 'Slates, Factions, & the British SWP':
http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=4268 (Pham Binh, Jan 2013; this has link to John Riddell on slates in the Comintern)
Click to expand...
Sue Blackwell speaks of a 1991 contested CC election:
http://www.sue.be/politics/swp/ (6" up from the bottom - does that sound rude?)
 
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SpineyNorman said:
I only really know their student members and they seem to share a kind of hive-mind, backing eachother up even when they're making obviously dodgy and prejudiced identity politics based arguments (apparently their having been 'patronised' by older comrades in the SWP means that ageism should be positively encouraged).




I wish it wasn't her to be honest, given her role in the whole Delta affair, but if we're going to stand TUSC candidates it does make sense to concentrate where you get the best vote. Her comrades don't seem to think we should bother standing at all and if what they're saying is anything to go by I wouldn't be surprised to see the SWP leave TUSC before too long - with how cosy they seem to be getting with labour in the peoples assembly it wouldn't surprise me too much if they're calling for a 'critical' lp vote again come 2015.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that will come as a great relief to the Labour party. :D
 
Delroy Booth said:
I think we've already seen something on this thread with Vladtheimpaler where we've seen the experiences of the SWP being used as a subsititute for the entire left and all it's participants, and that. Which again, is part of the cognitive dissonance of being an SWP member as you quite rightly said - assuming that what holds true for the SWP is just the default way of operating accross every group of people involved in "left" activism.

The student wing of the SWP still carries with it so much baggage from the SWP, the same opportunism is still there that I remember of them when I was a student. They have a perspective formed from being part of what is essentially a cult and although I'm glad they've finally broken from that it's going to take time for 'em to be deprogrammed.
Click to expand...
Hush, Comrade Booth! You risk laying bare the hidden agenda behind our employment of this Transylvanian cognomen - to sow confusion among the pitiful wretches who dare to resist us.
 
Jara Handala said:
Anyway, since it's re-branding as SWP in 1977, & until this year, I believe there was only one contested election, 2006:
outgoing-CC slate 208, Molyneux slate 57, abstentions 11 (Weekly Worker, 12Jan06)
Click to expand...
This is quit interesting, it means that the conference in 2006 was about half the size of the three this year. Also that is a sizeable rebellion. Who the he'll abstains at the things anyway?
 
benedict said:
What about the Leatherite headbangers? Surely the worst strata are the loyalist drones? Seems like a pretty fair characterization of ISNers apart from this.

On a related note, the ISN now seems beset by internal recriminations and navel-gazing over its own internal culture. Riven by a deep split between "reclaim the IS tradition" sentimentalists and Intersectionalistas it seems. Plus cliques within cliques. Is it true Seymour received #001 when the membership cards were handed out? Can't see any sort of future for this outfit. Bolshie will be very happy. No life out there in the swamp.
Click to expand...
You're being unnecessarily harsh. It's absolutely true that there are various silly sectlets (who all hate each other) already developing within the ISN. The arty-farty old boys' network, the trad dads, the IDPers & the LU liquidationists to name but four. However, within the 'swamp' (courtesy CPGB... aaarrrggghhh!) there are quite a few decent comrades who don't subscribe to any of these idiocies. Sure, we took far too long to abandon ship, but to describe us as 'the worst strata' when such as the IDOOMers exist is a bit OTT!
 
Delroy Booth said:
Are all the ex-SWP members as hilarious as you?
Click to expand...
Oh, lighten up. I'm not trying to win any Perrier Awards. Just riffing on the conspiracy/cults stuff. It's not aimed at you personally (in fact some of your previous contributions led me to believe you were taking the piss yourself), but if you don't like it I'll shut up.
 
Vladtheimpaler said:
You're being unnecessarily harsh. It's absolutely true that there are various silly sectlets (who all hate each other) already developing within the ISN. The arty-farty old boys' network, the trad dads, the IDPers & the LU liquidationists to name but four. However, within the 'swamp' (courtesy CPGB... aaarrrggghhh!) there are quite a few decent comrades who don't subscribe to any of these idiocies. Sure, we took far too long to abandon ship, but to describe us as 'the worst strata' when such as the IDOOMers exist is a bit OTT!
Click to expand...

Exactly the contrast I was seeking to draw with the loyalist hardcore. Why don't you enlighten us a little about the tendencies and tensions within the ISN? Do you see a viable future for this vehicle? Or is a merger with the splitters' splitters ACI or SR a necessity? Regroup or die?

Oh and the swamp metaphor is actually courtesy of the great man Cliff himself: "The swamp will surround us and get bigger, so we have to build our little island to keep ourselves out of it." Sage words indeed.
 
eoin_k said:
sheep-voting.jpg




[. . .] Am I right in thinking that the slate recommended by the majority of the old CC has always been elected? Does anybody know what the largest share of the vote received by an alternative slate has been?
Click to expand...
1) So, yes, the slate of the outgoing-CC has always been elected.
2) Two of the three 2013 National Conferences had contested CC elections (a CC is not for a term so a slate could have been put forward in March, but none was):
Jan: outgoing-CC slate defeated the slate put forward by Hannah Dee & Ray Morell (Unite) - anyone know the figures (Socialist Worker treated it as a Party secret, unlike this week)?
Dec: outgoing-CC slate 449, Rebuild the Party slate 69 (disclosed in the New 110% Open & Transparent Socialist Worker, 17Dec13, http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/37111/SWP conference discusses the way forward for the left)

Please note, the alternative slate in January was to keep the CC as it was: Dee & Morell had upset the Masters of the Universe over the Smith/DC business, got eased off the slate, so retaliated by organising their own slate. Strangely it seems you can put forward a slate without the agreement of those on it. Perhaps more strangely, Joseph Chooooooonara & Mark Bergfeld campaigned for this alternative slate but the Lynchers kept them on their own slate, so they kept their seats. (Bergfeld was to resign from the CC in February - his letter topped & tailed with the immortal words, "FOR SWP MEMBERS ONLY. DO NOT DISTRIBUTE OUTSIDE THE PARTY. DO NOT PUBLISH ONLINE.")

3) So the alternative slate percentages of votes cast for-against were 22% in 2006, ?% Jan 2013, & 13% Dec 2013.
 
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