SWP expulsions and squabbles

[SpineyNorman]

defending their comrades' daft comments isn't really restricted to ISN, or SW tho, a common occurrence over the entire left, pretty much.

It goes well beyond the left too. But they're not just defending these stupid comments when one of them makes them - the same kinds of comments have been made by several of them independently. And I can only think of one student member I know who isn't a fully paid up member of the identity politics laurie penny appreciation society.

 

[Vladtheimpaler]

That's not what he said, is it? Why reply if you're gonna do so in such a lazy manner?

Knackered, exasperated & thus overstating the case. Spiney & I have now kissed & made up - sort of. But I still don't quite get how the SP works.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

uhh, no deposit in a local election. Tho she has always got enough votes to save a deposit were one required (as did the Socialist Alliance candidate before her)

Ah thought you were talking about a general

 

[butchersapron]

She won't be the sort of threat where her role in this would even need to be mentioned - local or general - really is she?

 

[belboid]

Ah thought you were talking about a general

I doubt she'll be that daft. Tho she did last time - and I think she got a lower vote than in the local election held the same day.

 

[belboid]

She won't be the sort of threat where her role in this would even need to be mentioned - local or general - really is she?

No real threat, but an annoyance (to Labour that is). They would like her to stop standing

 

[Vladtheimpaler]

It goes well beyond the left too. But they're not just defending these stupid comments when one of them makes them - the same kinds of comments have been made by several of them independently. And I can only think of one student member I know who isn't a fully paid up member of the identity politics laurie penny appreciation society.

Right again, unfortunately, Spiney. I'm beginning to warm to you. The problems with the ISN aren't just confined to the old boys' networks I mentioned earlier. There's a new enforced conformity re identity politics/intersectionality/whatever which is potentially every bit as monolithic & moralistic as that of the SWP - but without the class stuff, so even more out on a limb.

 

[J Ed]

Right again, unfortunately, Spiney. I'm beginning to warm to you. The problems with the ISN aren't just confined to the old boys' networks I mentioned earlier. There's a new enforced conformity re identity politics/intersectionality/whatever which is potentially every bit as monolithic & moralistic as that of the SWP - but without the class stuff, so even more out on a limb.

I don't see how it can last as an organised sect on that basis, although I guess that university is so isolated that it can for a bit. I suspect that it will die off when they graduate.

 

[belboid]

I don't see how it can last as an organised sect on that basis,

It wont. It will have dissolved into something else, and/or splint into three within a year

 

[Trotter]

Latest resignation statement from Pat Stack:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/192705508/Pat-Stack-Resignation-letter

 

[belboid]

and Stack's out

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192705508/Pat-Stack-Resignation-letter

(hmm, odd, how come I missed Trotters post, hey ho)

 

[butchersapron]

What's he quoting Miley Cyrus for?

 

[belboid]

What's he quoting Miley Cyrus for?

it's Bob bloody Dylan!

 

[Shoegazer]

No real threat, but an annoyance (to Labour that is). They would like her to stop standing

An annoyance, full stop. She's still held in awe by a lot of the S.Yorks loyalists, some of whom seem to believe that she has come out of the past year

and Stack's out

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192705508/Pat-Stack-Resignation-letter

And he refers to Maxine's role in the whole sordid business. The S.Yorks loyalists would have been first on their feet to give her that ovation.
Sad to see Stack leave a party that he gave so much to over the years, I wish him well in whatever he does next.

 

[butchersapron]

it's Bob bloody Dylan!

I think it's more likely given the youth cult aspects of the leavees and some of the shameful age-baiting that a number of them have been engaged in since sunday night, that he was probably referring to Miley's version in order t o build up some much needed youth cred in the coming period.

 

[belboid]

I think it's more likely given the youth cult aspects of the leavees and some of the shameful age-baiting that a number of them have been engaged in since sunday night, that he was probably referring to Miley's version in order t o build up some much needed youth cred in the coming period.

christ,I didnt know she'd done a version. And I bet Stack didnt either, he's always quoting Dylan (plus, 50 year old man feigning interest in teenage girl probably isnt the best way to build cred amongst ex-SWP youth at the moment)

 

[J Ed]

What's he quoting Miley Cyrus for?

"I left the SWP like a wrecking ball..."

 

[Das Uberdog]

Right again, unfortunately, Spiney. I'm beginning to warm to you. The problems with the ISN aren't just confined to the old boys' networks I mentioned earlier. There's a new enforced conformity re identity politics/intersectionality/whatever which is potentially every bit as monolithic & moralistic as that of the SWP - but without the class stuff, so even more out on a limb.

the ISN, with one or two honourable exceptions, was formed from the worst strata of SWP members... often those most responsible for the hyper-claustrophobic anti-discursive atmosphere and culture within the organisation. i'm pretty sceptical of anyone for whom it took these rape allegations to realise that there was something wrong inside the party and wrong with party democracy. far better socialists have been being barred from the SWP for years on spurious grounds of sexism, bigotry etc by exactly this bunch of intersectionalists who until now were quite happy to endorse the internal culture of bullying and dishonesty.

 

[Karmickameleon]

Sad to see Stack leave a party that he gave so much to over the years, I wish him well in whatever he does next.

Yes, at the end of day it's a sad letter (as was Birchall's). Pat made mistakes but played a very honourable role in the whole sorry story. I don't get the impression from his letter that he plans to join or form a new organisation. Also, from what I am told, he doesn't believe that there is a strong enough basis for such a group. We shall see.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

and Stack's out

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192705508/Pat-Stack-Resignation-letter

(hmm, odd, how come I missed Trotters post, hey ho)

numerous pms of support

 

[Trotter]

numerous pms of support

It's had 1155 views in the last hour or so.

 

[frogwoman]

Is Julie Simmons still a member?

 

[andysays]

it's Bob bloody Dylan!

And Robert Johnson?

after a year of shooting in the dark trying to put right a wrong, I feel I have been brought to
a crossroads

Further proof that Pat goes back as far as anyone "in the tradition"

 

[dennisr]

The fact that SWPers from all over the country had remarkably similar experiences of TUSC would suggest there was a centralised strategy at work there.

My experience in East Kent has been a local SWP 'leadership' conciously undermining TUSC at every opportunity - publically opposing TUSC - publically offering support for soft-leftish labour hacks - openly building other soft left groups in direct opposition while conciously attacking any critisism from the left in the likes of the local People's Assembly, terrified whenever we turn up (despite bureaucratic attempts to keep us out) to the extent of an almost unvarying attack from the local SWP hack - Bunny LaWanker - every single time an SP member speaks and, of course, keeping their members ignorant of TUSCs existance. They don't seem to understand the 'formal' position of their own organisation - they seem to feel their job is as a 'left' cover for austerity-mongers. if that's how they build a united front they can feck off. i would not trust the local SWP leadership as far as i could throw them - they are arseholes even by the usual standards of the swappies. They sooner the SWP is dead in my area the better.

Like Spiney I also don't mince words.

It leaves the non-SP trade unionists now drawn into playing a central role in TUSC locally (RMT, NAPO and Unite members mainly) working happily with SP trade unionists.

 

[tedsplitter]

Word from the Kremlin: http://swp.org.uk/content/central-committee-statement-20-december-2013

 

[barney_pig]

Word from the Kremlin: http://swp.org.uk/content/central-committee-statement-20-december-2013

Bolshyboys script for the next six months

 

[barney_pig]

That is a very decisive result - and SWP members are not “sheep”.

 

[Vladtheimpaler]

Word from the Kremlin: http://swp.org.uk/content/central-committee-statement-20-december-2013

Ah, the voice of sweet reason. Who are they trying to kid? They're seriously worried now. With Pat's departure, we can expect many others who were hanging around to see which way he jumped to follow in his wake. Hannah next? Seems unlikely in view of her attempts at reconciliation, but you never know...

 

[eoin_k]

That is a very decisive result - and SWP members are not “sheep”.

I now have an image of a flock of sheep attending a national conference year after year, where they consistently elect a Central Committee from the slate recommended by their shepherds, which is ridiculous. So, the CC statement does make some sense, but planting that image in people's head doesn't demonstrate the best communication skills. Am I right in thinking that the slate recommended by the majority of the old CC has always been elected? Does anybody know what the largest share of the vote received by an alternative slate has been?

 

[Delroy Booth]

I only really know their student members and they seem to share a kind of hive-mind, backing eachother up even when they're making obviously dodgy and prejudiced identity politics based arguments (apparently their having been 'patronised' by older comrades in the SWP means that ageism should be positively encouraged).

http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/991/swp-conference-notes-of-a-delegate

A detailed analysis and well worth reading, but I'm getting really fed up of this attitude. I keep encountering oppositionists that insist that because the SWP is in crisis, then by definition so is the rest of the left. I'm finding it a bit fucking annoying to be honest. I'm not trying to claim the left is in a healthy state, but I think its fair enough to say that the rest of the left is not imploding as a result of covering up rape allegations and protecting rapists.

I'm not saying that the SWP weren't or aren't still a major part of the left, I think its the attitude that pisses me off so much. I get a lot of ISN types insisting to me that its not just the SWP, that no left organisation can possibly be healthy, and I don't see any logic behind that other than some kind of belief that the SWP was a perfect organisation and that where it has failed, so too must all others.

I think we've already seen something on this thread with Vladtheimpaler where we've seen the experiences of the SWP being used as a subsititute for the entire left and all it's participants, and that. Which again, is part of the cognitive dissonance of being an SWP member as you quite rightly said - assuming that what holds true for the SWP is just the default way of operating accross every group of people involved in "left" activism.

The student wing of the SWP still carries with it so much baggage from the SWP, the same opportunism is still there that I remember of them when I was a student. They have a perspective formed from being part of what is essentially a cult and although I'm glad they've finally broken from that it's going to take time for 'em to be deprogrammed.