SWP expulsions and squabbles

[One_Stop_Shop]

that doesn't mean they're centrists tho or that they're wrong, just because they disagree with the leadership on organisational matters. I'm in the SP because of the work it's done locally and because I think it's probably the organisation on the left that has actually done quite a lot of good in large areas of the country, in unions, etc, as well as internationally with other sections of the cwi. there's loads i disagree with the leadership about though.

Centrist. Feminist. Autonomist.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

So you're basically saying despite all that has happened there isn't really anything wrong with the SWP and all the centrists need to get out so the hardcore can get on with more of the same?

Sounds about right.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

Sounds about right.

Brilliant. At least you're honest.

I'd rejoin if I was you, they need this kind of backing at a time like this. You'll probably be the only person in the country joining, as people flood out of the exit doors.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

Nothing to see here comrades, move on, move on. No we've got the rabble out of the way the true vanguard can move on to glory. Onwards Tony Cliff. Onwards Martin Smith. Paper sales up. Membership up. Marxism biggest for 200 years.

 

[frogwoman]

Centrist. Feminist. Autonomist.

Possibly.

I think this could have a massive impact tbh, far beyond the SWP. I think the SP would handle a case like this in a far better way, but I'm sure that a lot of left wing groups are looking at this and wondering about rethinking what "democratic centralism" could mean.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

Possibly.

I think this could have a massive impact tbh, far beyond the SWP.

I wasn't being serious.

You are right about impact, it will harm the whole of the left, but the SWP the most. Most people think organisations like the SWP and the Socialist Party are the same organisation, if they know of them at all. The only reason it won't have more impact is because the far left is so marginalised anyway.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Brilliant. At least you're honest.

I'd rejoin if I was you, they need this kind of backing at a time like this. You'll probably be the only person in the country joining, as people flood out of the exit doors.

I was being ironic.

 

[frogwoman]

I wasn't being serious.

You are right about impact, it will harm the whole of the left, but the SWP the most. Most people think organisations like the SWP and the Socialist Party are the same organisation, if they know of them at all. The only reason it won't have more impact is because the far left is so marginalised anyway.

I'm not sure that this incident will harm the left. It was going to emerge what had happened anyway. What has already happened has harmed the left. It could mean that this entire thing causes a re think within left wing organisations about the whole idea of democratic centralism, I don't necessarily mean abandoning it, but just to look more closely at their internal culture.

 

[Fedayn]

Trust the Mail to give an Islamophobic twist to the swp bashing.

Actually I think it was Andy Newman from SU who was first to that lovely twist.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

I was being ironic.

In what way? You appear to be saying all the people on the leadership have the right politics and the people against them are a bunch of centrists, feminists and autonomists. And little shits.

So surely the logic would be that the leadership should carry on as they were?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I've got a close friend who was in the SWP for decades (but not now). He's a good man who is a good judge of character. I mentioned, in isolation, the name of the alleged rapist, and asked if he knew him. His face clouded and he said with vehemence "He's a thug." I told him about the rape allegation (he'd not heard) and he wasn't in the least surprised. He was pretty appalled at the way it was being dealt with too as being a totally inappropriate response.

 

[articul8]

Feminist is an insult to a Cliffite that's what they don't understand.

Another good reason not to be a Cliffite then

 

[cesare]

Actually I think it was Andy Newman from SU who was first to that lovely twist.

He then seems to have backtracked when the Indie journo used it, saying that the words were put in his mouth.

I was quite surprised that the Mail didn't sensationalise it more, tbh.

 

[emanymton]

He then seems to have backtracked when the Indie journo used it, saying that the words were put in his mouth.

But still refuses to criticise the journo, it all seems very weird.

 

[cesare]

But still refuses to criticise the journo, it all seems very weird.

Yep. Makes it look like a wriggle.

 

[Fedayn]

Yep. Makes it look like a wriggle.

It is, he said it and he knows it.

 

[bignose1]

I'm reminded Red Action went through an almost identical thing some time ago.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I'm reminded Red Action went through an almost identical thing some time ago.

Did they indeed? How did that pan out?

I agree with FrogWoman; I do hope the SP would do better if the same happened within our own ranks but we should all be looking with a critical eye at our own organisational structures and cultures and ask ourselves whether or not they can be improved. I'm a believer in democratic centralism (though not the sort practised by the SWP) but it's worth remembering that no democratic structure can work if a culture of protecting the leadership from criticism or disciplinary action emerges-it takes an active, informed and conscientious membership to make internal democracy work.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Understandably the swp folk I have as friends on fb are remaining totally silent. Apart from one like from the Prof of a supportive comment on his wall.

 

[cesare]

Understandably the swp folk I have as friends on fb are remaining totally silent. Apart from one like from the Prof of a supportive comment on his wall.

The silent ones, your friends, understanding and buying into the core beliefs?

 

[audiotech]

Very little political discussion. No change there then.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Very little political discussion. No change there then.

What here or in the SWP?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Understandably the swp folk I have as friends on fb are remaining totally silent. Apart from one like from the Prof of a supportive comment on his wall.

Quite a few of them going at it hammer and tongs on certain facebook walls. The "dissidents" are more numerous and louder than the "loyalists", but there are quite a few of the latter too.

 

[audiotech]

What here or in the SWP?

Facebook. I've seen one about 'more comrades than usual in their district selling the paper'.

Meanwhile, Laurie Penny's weighed in.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I've seen one about 'more comrades than usual in their district selling the paper'

That's so dire it's almost funny.

 

[mutley]

Leeds University SWSS Statement:

'Leeds University SWSS condemns, in the strongest possible terms, the recent handling of very serious accusations against a leading member of the SWP Central Committee. We are also extremely disappointed that SWP national conference voted to ratify the decision and process of the Disputes Committee responsible for the investigation.'

One stop shop - where did this leeds swss statement come from?

 

[audiotech]

That's so dire it's almost funny.

Absolutely, and this from someone I know who was heavily involved in feminist politics in the late 70's. "Heartened" by the turn-out it appears.

Edit: Hold the front page! Thought this sounded odd. Turns out it was some increase in a verbal commitment to sell papers, so the actuality of a turn-out I suspect will have been little, or more likely none.

 

[Bakunin]

And here's the CC 'line':

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/online-only/swp-cc-counter-attack

Which contains, among many, many others, this particular gem:

Secret factions have all the defects of permanent factions, added to which are those of lack of any accountability to the party at large.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

One stop shop - where did this leeds swss statement come from?

It's Leeds SWSS' facebook status.

 

[SpineyNorman]

And here's the CC 'line':

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/online-only/swp-cc-counter-attack

Which contains, among many, many others, this particular gem:

Thought that was a response they'd only just released until I saw the date - they're surely going to have to release something, internally at least.