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SWP expulsions and squabbles

manny-p said:
Ok. But I was thinking people might be appalled that an ex MP who voted for the Iraq war and voted against a public enquiry into the war is coming. Has no one mentioned this? The guy has got blood on his hands.
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He is still currently MP for Neath.
 
emanymton said:
And you don't think the ISN and SWP might end up working together in the same campaigns?
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i just don't get what is actually being said there, or why it's all smoke and mirrors. i can't really see how the SWP could be making life harder for him now than when he was still in.

Hocus Eye said:
He is talking about South Africa and his part in fighting apartheid there. He was not a NewLabour/blue labour robot in those days. He was a member of the Liberal Party then and known as a 'radical'
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Hain is also a longstanding supporter of UAF, and one of the SWP's big 'connections' in certain political circles. at the closing rally of Marxism one year, Delta actually spoke about being briefed with info regarding the QT UAF demo in Hain's office iirc, so i think the party connections have some history.
 
Das Uberdog said:
i just don't get what is actually being said there, or why it's all smoke and mirrors. i can't really see how the SWP could be making life harder for him now than when he was still in.



Hain is also a longstanding supporter of UAF, and one of the SWP's big 'connections' in certain political circles. at the closing rally of Marxism one year, Delta actually spoke about being briefed with info regarding the QT UAF demo in Hain's office iirc, so i think the party connections have some history.
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more than 'some' history. Hain was one of the original ANL signatories back in the seventies, and one of its most prominent(non-SWP) campaignes. He joined again on the relaunch, iirr. He used to speak at meetings, in anti-nazi & SA stuff, but was allowed to drift off when the party started being able to get actual South Africans along to speak. He's not been invited back earlier, most likely due to his support for the war.
 
manny-p said:
Ok. But I was thinking people might be appalled that an ex MP who voted for the Iraq war and voted against a public enquiry into the war is coming. Has no one mentioned this? The guy has got blood on his hands.
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Of course they have and of course he has. My point was to put straight what he was talking about and to suggest that both sides are more than happy to turn blind eyes to things if it benefits them.
 
belboid said:
more than 'some' history. Hain was one of the original ANL signatories back in the seventies, and one of its most prominent(non-SWP) campaignes. He joined again on the relaunch, iirr. He used to speak at meetings, in anti-nazi & SA stuff, but was allowed to drift off when the party started being able to get actual South Africans along to speak. He's not been invited back earlier, most likely due to his support for the war.
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He was the first chair of the ANL and the SWP/groups *in* to some serious labour money and professional skills. I wonder why, at a time the anti-edl stuff is all they have and their resources are disintegrating around them, they would try and resurrect these profitable links and mainstream connections.
 
they've maintained their links with Hain's office throughout tbf... my theory is just that they're absolutely desperate for speakers more than anything
 
"Weyman Bennett, joint National Secretary of Unite Against Fascism (pc) will speak on

From the EDL to BNP: How do we stop fascism today?"
PC? It's almost as if they are pretending the UAF is an independent organisation
 
barney_pig said:
"Weyman Bennett, joint National Secretary of Unite Against Fascism (pc) will speak on

From the EDL to BNP: How do we stop fascism today?"
PC? It's almost as if they are pretending the UAF is an independent organisation
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I think it would be better for them if they did split off completely - better for the fight against fascism if they make it clear that they are no part of the SWP.
 
Louis MacNeice said:
Last Friday I spoke to a long time SWP member, who I haven't seen for years and years; in the past he has always been happy to defend the party against all criticism.

Unsurprisingly, I had him down as a super loyalist and so was encouraged when he told me that he had resigned - as he put it from the party not from being active - and that from his perspective those who are still in are 'only the 50 something men'.

He had subsequently been approached by the Socialist Party as a potential recruit; but he hadn't been convinced by what he heard of their disputes procedures when he enquired about them.

He seemed quite happy not to be in a party...which surprised me given his decades long commitment to the SWP and its particular brand of Leninism.

What do I take from all this?

If the SWP has lost people like this, and lost them so completely, then it is curtains for them; long drawn out curtains certainly, but it is over in any meaningful sense.

If a long time Leninist can get to grips with life outside 'the party' (whichever party that is) then there are a whole layer of people out there, with skill and experience to draw on, who can usefully contribute to a pro-working class politics; that doesn't mean that they necessarily will but there is a potential there.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
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Well I hope they do get involved, but if past experience is anything to go by, I doubt it.
 
The39thStep said:
In what way?
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Not being associated with a party that can treat abused women abominably & I say that as a member of the SWP though the way things are going not for much longer, I'm only hanging till I see how they deal with any questions that come up at marxism this year & I suspect I'm not the only one, I think a lot of young people have already voted with their feet so to speak.
 
butchersapron said:
They aren't running UAF though. The old people are. Who is going to declare UDI?
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If they don't get new members they will stagnate and become much more irrelevant, much as the SWP is becoming, without new ideas there is no growth and the old guard will look out of touch. When you are perceived as out of touch that is what you will eventually become
 
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