butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I can.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
You're wrong. And a cunt too.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Then your imagination is sadly limited.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Cunt.
tedsplitter
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure that's significantly less at this point than the last few years, and four days away from the end of March deadline for £5 off the ticket price.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
It's going to be the biggest huddle in the world
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Do you distinguish between violent and 'non-violent' rape too?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I see what you mean J Ed, I do, and I think this is a difficult issue which I certainly find problematic... However, something in my gut thinks that as repulsive as verbally pressuring someone into sex through emotional blackmail (which is definitely rape) is, it's not the same as, say, violently breaking into someone's home, seriously assaulting them and raping them repeatedly over a period of hours. My head isn't sure what to think, but my gut says the former is very bad and the latter is even worse. Would welcome others thoughts on this though.
Edit: It's worth considering that under the law sometimes a non-premeditated murder could be considered manslaughter for example, while premeditated murder is treated as more serious in many legal systems.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You a feminist?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Sure, but there is a big difference between aggravating factors and sentencing guidelines and Jean-Luc's assertion that somehow the SWP wasn't that bad because the rape they covered up was a 'less serious' type of rape than the recent cases of rape that have received media coverage in India.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I'm far from an expert on this, but from what reading I have done on the subject I get the distinct impression that people who work with rape survivors are pretty unanimous that there is very little difference longer term on the effects of rape on women when it is 'stranger' rape (usually associated more with violence than other types of coercion) and rape by someone they know. If anything, the latter tends to be a lot worse.
i try. cesare definitely is though. dunno what brand.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Rather enjoying that socialist unity has the socialist worker cartoon under the title 'you couldn't make it up' and it appears that, when posting a picture of champagne being delivered to 10 Downing Street, they did.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I don't know what brand either. What's that creeping one consist of?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Socialist Unity are a bunch of pricks though.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
lazy pricks too. they couldn't even be arsed to crop the SW cartoon so that the nonsense alongside it didnt show. I kept trying to work out how come the EDF mascot was on the National Extremist Database
ASDA smart price.
tony collins
Active Member
We got the date wrong and John got annoyed about people pointing it out, but hopefully at least the fact that we don't delete our own embarrassment gives us at least a little credibilty. Also, we're qualititively different to the SWP. We're much better bullies, for a start.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Probably one that flatters people
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
tony collins
Active Member
That was my decision. Sometimes you just want to give it a dab of context. I didn't really like the look of it, to be honest, but it was as much "this is a main cartoon at the front of the paper" as it was "they think this is a funny thing for them to say". It felt like we were just saying "have a laugh at this funny cartoon". Also, the decision to do what we did took about 4 times as long - cos the PDF version of the cartoon pixelates out at that size, so I had to transplant a copy of the cartoon into the cropped picture and resize it to make it faithful to the original.
See here's the problem isn't it. Quite a lot of thought went into whether, how and when to laugh at it. And when we decided it was worth it, do we simply cut out the cartoon or put it in context? But how boring would it be if I gave the political and cultural explanation for every post? I just re-read what I wrote, and even *I* think I sound like I'm trying to be clever. But it's the truth - sometimes we spend a massive amount of time on articles; sometimes we spend ages discussing it with each other. Sometimes we don't. But you're not gonna want a wiki-style talk:history entry for every article.
Also it really shouldn't need saying that SU and the SWP are entirely different - for a start, we do (painfully often) point out our own mistakes, publically; not just that, we really have tried for over a year now to gradually steer the comments away from the cess-pit that SWP anonytrolls made it (happy people like Yunus, posting anonymously for 5 or more years, always nasty and always generating a nasty response). We're not a leninist party that has a centralist approach to action, and so on.
So actually sometimes we post silly shit. There are a lot of people who think Andy posts stuff out of bile, but again here's the problem we all have when it comes to the internet: Andy is one of the post politically thoughtful people I've ever met. Online, he is sick of having had years of quite serious abuse, and he's therefore made a name for himself as someone who will dish it out. But having been involved with the site for years before taking on management duties, I had hundreds of conversations with him - I think it's fair enough for people to dislike him or me or us, but most of people's reasons for doing so just don't tally up with reality.
As in, I think it should be possible for people to really respect the differences they have with Andy, without assuming he's a total idiot or a nasty piece of work.
All of us on SU have been subject to real-life attempts to drive us out of the movement by the SWP, and of *course* that has an impact on how we act online. I don't like the fact that Tedsplitter above doesn't post on SU anymore - we used to love his posts cos he was never a wanker when he disagreed; so many of us used to try (in our own crap way) to separate people such as him from the real anonytrolls, but in the end as an SWP member, ted would've felt unable to defend aspects of our behaviour. But our "behaviour" has a material basis, and it can change: Those people really did try to destroy me in my union, they really did try to cause so much hatred so that no one would work with us again.
So, yeah, when you run a website, you're gonna bring all your baggage with you. But I still think most of what people say about SU isn't true. You think we're lazy, but you don't have any idea of the huge number of hours we all put into that site. Disagree with us, fine, but make the disagreements accurate.
FWIW, we've got decent plans for that site. We want much more of a community, where commenters moderate each other a bit; we want people to feel it's a place where you can disagree seriously but not hate each other.
Problem is, no one has achieved that yet have they? On here, there is some pretty visceral hatred going on, and yet none of you are trolls.
My experience of being a mod both on Lenin's Tomb and on SU is that you have to look beneath your surface reactions, cos it's entirely useless to just think "they're a bunch of pricks" - we've posted over 7,000 articles in the last 6 years. Surely *some of them* will be interesting enough?
Ha, I got to the end without saying "look, people, the way to give a site like SU the energy and politics you want it to have is to join in, so come one!" Cos, y'know...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
what exactly is the point of Socialist Unity website ? Does it hope to promote either socilaism or unity or is it just a title like 'same day cleaners'?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I was hoping for one that flattened people
The underhand left
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Oh. I thought you were joking.
tony collins
Active Member
Well it's good that there are sites like this where people can be sure of a thoughtful, serious discussion about it, right?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
tony collins
What is the point of SU? Really? What is your "project"?
To me, having been an occasional visitor to the site for years it has always remained an exemplar of what is wrong with the British left. Both in the articles posted and the commentators it attracts.
What is the point of SU? Really? What is your "project"?
To me, having been an occasional visitor to the site for years it has always remained an exemplar of what is wrong with the British left. Both in the articles posted and the commentators it attracts.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yes, yes it is.
Similar threads
