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SWP expulsions and squabbles

ResistanceMP3 said:
I think it was perfectly valid for ViolentPanda and chilango to say socialist worker was wrong, the evidence after the Vietnam war doesn't stack up to agree with the socialist worker position.
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Actually, for the record, I think the IS paper was called Labour Worker till half way through that war.
Didn't Lenin support Britain in the war against the Ottoman Empire? He supported one imperialist block, against another imperialist block, because at times the anti-imperialism debate can become more nuanced than a simple binary choice. (He supported it on the basis many historians have supported Napoleons imperialism, it smashed Up many feudal style regimes, and allowed capitalism to develop.)
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Also for the record (and for pub quizzes) Marx supported the Ottoman Empire, Britain and France in the Crimean War against Tsarist Russia. I think I can see why (he saw Tsarist Russia as a threat to capitalist development and potential democratic political forms in the rest of Europe) but I'd still he was wrong.
 
leyton96 said:
Looks like Socialist Unity has suffered a DNS attack again. Makes you wonder if the SWP are going to end up as the North Korea of the left. Totally isolated with a team of hackers occasionally going on the rampage to fuck shit up?
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Socialist Unity occupies that space as North Korea.It would be silly to change things.
 
SpineyNorman said:
Aberration? I always knew the squeebies were petty bourgeois deviationists - now we have the proof! :mad:

for-the-workers-bomb-2.jpg
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the usual anti-american yawn :rolleyes:













does it come in a t shirt in my size?
 
leyton96 said:
Looks like Socialist Unity has suffered a DNS attack again. Makes you wonder if the SWP are going to end up as the North Korea of the left. Totally isolated with a team of hackers occasionally going on the rampage to fuck shit up?
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It was up and running a couple of minutes ago. I don't suppose there is anybody with powerful computer hacking skills at the SWP, after all their view of the internet is that it has a "dark side". This makes them seem like American religious fundies.
 
Hocus Eye. said:
It was up and running a couple of minutes ago. I don't suppose there is anybody with powerful computer hacking skills at the SWP, after all their view of the internet is that it has a "dark side". This makes them seem like American religious fundies.
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I'm probably giving the SWP members involved too much credit calling them hackers. However it is trivially easy for anyone with a basic IT knowledge to download malicious software from hacker sites and launch them at poorly secured sites like Socialist Unity. The admins over at Stalinist Unity have been complaining about DNS attacks for a while now. While you have to take just about everything they say with a pinch of salt there does seem to have been an increase in the amount of times SU has gone down since they published the DC report minutes.
 
leyton96 said:
I'm probably giving the SWP members involved too much credit calling them hackers. However it is trivially easy for anyone with a basic IT knowledge to download malicious software from hacker sites and launch them at poorly secured sites like Socialist Unity. The admins over at Stalinist Unity have been complaining about DNS attacks for a while now. While you have to take just about everything they say with a pinch of salt there does seem to have been an increase in the amount of times SU has gone down since they published the DC report minutes.
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I want to believe
 
Apparently some people in India tried to undermine a forthcoming Delhi Historical Materialism conference by linking the journal with the SWP. It seems, however, that all of the HM editorial board members who were associated with the SWP have resigned from the party. They also asked the "one SWP CC member" who was scheduled to give a paper not to come.
http://www.sacw.net/article4048.html
 
leyton96 said:
I'm probably giving the SWP members involved too much credit calling them hackers. However it is trivially easy for anyone with a basic IT knowledge to download malicious software from hacker sites and launch them at poorly secured sites like Socialist Unity. The admins over at Stalinist Unity have been complaining about DNS attacks for a while now. While you have to take just about everything they say with a pinch of salt there does seem to have been an increase in the amount of times SU has gone down since they published the DC report minutes.
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Why would you "have to take everything [we] say with a pinch of salt?" I try pretty damned hard to be straight down the line with people on there, and I think my record's pretty solid. So why are you assuming that we're almost always dishonest?

We've been under fairly basic denial of service attacks for a few months; it's not hard for people to bring a site down. Part of what's happened is that, as a result of the attacks, I've really hardened the back-end security, which does mean we get more instances of the site refusing connections. It's a learning process and frequently I'm running to catch up, so various people can end up getting caught up in the various battles against attackers and the site's security systems - sometimes people have ended up being blocked from accessing the site. If it happens, drop me an email to office@socialistunity.com and I'll sort it. I'm a tube driver, so if I'm working I won't be able to sort it, but generally if people find the site is down, I can bring it back up within a few minutes.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Apparently some people in India tried to undermine a forthcoming Delhi Historical Materialism conference by linking the journal with the SWP. It seems, however, that all of the HM editorial board members who were associated with the SWP have resigned from the party. They also asked the "one SWP CC member" who was scheduled to give a paper not to come.
http://www.sacw.net/article4048.html
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This is interesting, and should be worrying for the SWP. HM was one of the very few areas where an SWP inspired initiative has won wider support outside of their own ranks. That the Indian organisers felt that anger at the rape crisis within the SWP was so great that they felt it necessary to disinvite the CC speaker from attending does not bode well for the party's attempts to forget the recent past.
 
tony collins said:
Why would you "have to take everything [we] say with a pinch of salt?" I try pretty damned hard to be straight down the line with people on there, and I think my record's pretty solid. So why are you assuming that we're almost always dishonest?
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I suspect that the issue is (a) at least as much related to an appearance of extreme tendentiousness as any notable dishonesty and (b) has more to do with Andy, John and the complete zoo that is the comments section than it does with you in the first place.
 
barney_pig said:
This is interesting, and should be worrying for the SWP. HM was one of the very few areas where an SWP inspired initiative has won wider support outside of their own ranks.
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Worrying for the remaining SWP academics and graduate students perhaps, but it's not really something that is going to impinge on other members too much. I doubt if the CC member was exactly overjoyed for instance.

I'm more curious about whether this stems primarily from Indian left wing academic politics (ie people who don't want a HM conference for other reasons) or is genuine spill over.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Apparently some people in India tried to undermine a forthcoming Delhi Historical Materialism conference by linking the journal with the SWP. It seems, however, that all of the HM editorial board members who were associated with the SWP have resigned from the party. They also asked the "one SWP CC member" who was scheduled to give a paper not to come.
http://www.sacw.net/article4048.html
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I can see that this development must be worrying, deeply worrying, for the SWP, but is it the sort of thing we should welcome from the point of view of free and open debate? I don't know what the real reason behind the organisers' decision is but, by mentioning threats of disruption, it smacks of the cowardice of the organisers of literary events in India who have disinvited Salman Rushdie on the same grounds.

It would be ironic in view of the prominence of the SWP in the "No Platform for the BNP" campaign if they were to fall victims to a "No Platform for the SWP" campaign, but this (both in fact) would still be wrong. I don't see this as a welcome development.
 
I should clarify: Apparently the uninviting was done by the HM Delhi organising committee, made up of Indian academics, rather than by the HM editorial board.
 
Jean-Luc said:
I can see that this development must be worrying, deeply worrying, for the SWP, but is it the sort of thing we should welcome from the point of view of free and open debate? I don't know what the real reason behind the organisers' decision is but, by mentioning threats of disruption, it smacks of the cowardice of the organisers of literary events in India who have disinvited Salman Rushdie on the same grounds.

It would be ironic in view of the prominence of the SWP in the "No Platform for the BNP" campaign if they were to fall victims to a "No Platform for the SWP" campaign, but this (both in fact) would still be wrong. I don't see this as a welcome development.
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Refusing to offer someone a platform is not the same as censoring them. I'll leave your liberal defence of fascist organiser's rights out of this for now.
 
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