SWP expulsions and squabbles

[emanymton]

For the love of God could someone in the SWP/ISN please do/say/write something interesting!!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you have evidence it was rape that the rest of us don't please enlighten us.

And still you don't get it!

 

[Fedayn]

Nobody enjoys this stuff butchers. The hackiest loyalist I know wishes a certain person had kept their dick in their trousers and behaved differently. Thats obvious. Being forced to get down to brass tacks and define what you basically believe is good for the soul though. And if it hadn't been this case then SEYMOUR! Would have found another reason to have a go. The seeds were sown when the party failed to hegemonise people it recruited after Millbank.

It's not about him keeping his dick in his trousers that's the problem but putting his dick where it wasn't wanted. Funny how you can't see that.....

 

[butchersapron]

It's not about him keeping his dick in his trousers that's the problem but putting his dick where it wasn't wanted. Funny how you can't see that.....

Aee you saying Sheila Rowbatham was wrong to leave in 1971?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I love how the promotion of a working class militant to the cc has upset so many anarchists. Says bundles about you.

Martin Smith, working class? Debatable. Middle-class Herts boy who didn't do well at school and joined the Civil Service, where he discovered a flair for trade unionism. I knew 2 people who worked with him at the Passport Office. Apparently he had a very non-Mockney accent back then.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

It's not about him keeping his dick in his trousers that's the problem but putting his dick where it wasn't wanted. Funny how you can't see that.....

I can see there was and is a debate about that. None of us know the facts which hasn't changed since post 1 in this thread. I was describing the thoughts of people who believe he is innocent. I have my own prejudices (based purely on past experience in his company) but as I don't know the facts I'm not qualified to judge. Unlike 99% of the people on this thread apparently.

 

[Fedayn]

Aee you saying Sheila Rowbatham was wrong to leave in 1971?

I don't know.... I simply find this 'defence' of Smith and it's reduction to 'keep his dick in his trousers' as nauseating.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know.... I simply find this 'defence' of Smith and it's reduction to 'keep his dick in his trousers' as nauseating.

Nor do i, but it was one of the little defences he used last week. That this is all because of Sheila NOT THE RAPES.

 

[Fedayn]

I can see there was and is a debate about that. None of us know the facts which hasn't changed since post 1 in this thread. I was describing the thoughts of people who believe he is innocent. I have my own prejudices (based purely on past experience in his company) but as I don't know the facts I'm not qualified to judge. Unlike 99% of the people on this thread apparently.

Well unless the woman in question is a liar-and you nor I have any evidence to say she is-then that's exactly what happened. And your entire position on here has been to defend what has happened re the aftermath. Says plenty about your opinion on the veracity of the womans claims.

 

[Fedayn]

Nor do i, but it was one of the little defences he used last week. That this is all because of Sheila NOT THE RAPES.

Sweet jesus.....

 

[butchersapron]

I can see there was and is a debate about that. None of us know the facts which hasn't changed since post 1 in this thread. I was describing the thoughts of people who believe he is innocent. I have my own prejudices (based purely on past experience in his company) but as I don't know the facts I'm not qualified to judge. Unlike 99% of the people on this thread apparently.

Or 0% of the people in the SWP. Or at least 0% of the people on the DC and 2 of the CC. Why are they now "qualified to judge"?

 

[emanymton]

OK, I'll try something.
Anyone else find it a bit odd that the ISN is bigging up Ken Loach and his appeal for left unity considering he is a supporter of alleged rapist Julian Assange. Unless he has changed his mind and I missed it. Now I don't mean we should just write Loach off because of it, but if you read the (admittedly very limited) discussion on their forum the issue does not come up at all.

 

[TremulousTetra]

How do this comment and a list of Marx texts complete with prices and ISBN numbers constitute a political argument?

"Add To Cart View Basket Back to top of result"

myth>

Some do, some don't. Some actively encourage you to read outside of their tradition. The SWP (as an org, not as individual members of whatever standing) tend to recommend reading by authors wiithin their tradition, even commentaries written by members rather than originals written by long-dead comrades. That way you get their take, rather than forming your own.

reality, the SWP as an organisation PROVIDE and actively encouraged the reading of many of the "originals written by long dead comrades".

I read capital volume 1 as part of a reading group with the SWP.

It's not really a political argument, just pointing out that violent panda said we do, is not entirely true. In fact some may say it's a misrepresentation of reality.

 

[butchersapron]

I can see there was and is a debate about that. None of us know the facts which hasn't changed since post 1 in this thread. I was describing the thoughts of people who believe he is innocent. I have my own prejudices (based purely on past experience in his company) but as I don't know the facts I'm not qualified to judge. Unlike 99% of the people on this thread apparently.

Who is qualified then bb? Are the swp qualified to judge? If not, who?

And what is being judged?

 

[ViolentPanda]

What makes you an expert on my class boss?

Calling someone "boss" is usually an affectation adopted by members of the middle classes to seem more proletarian.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Hang on rmp3 I wanted to hear people's thoughts on emanymton's post.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I would and am. The vicarious chomp of the working class within the party, as long as they don't get together and work out that we are shit houses.

I was hoping you would.

 

[ViolentPanda]

myth>


reality, the SWP as an organisation PROVIDE and actively encouraged the reading of many of the "originals written by long dead comrades".

I read capital volume 1 as part of a reading group with the SWP.

It's not really a political argument, just pointing out that violent panda said we do, is not entirely true. In fact some may say it's a misrepresentation of reality.

"We"?
But you've sworn black is blue you're not a Swappie!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Would this be an example of "hegemonising" (as I said, I'd never heard the word before):
It's not from the SWP. I don't think the SWP have candidate members, do they? Which presumably makes it easier to join/be recruited.

But I see that Weekly Worker who are among their fiercest critics do. In fact it seems to fit in perfectly with your explanation of the word:
These examples would seem to confirm what I said about lots of groups engaging in "hegemonising".

TBF, AWL are probably a bad example, as they fit more "cult" descriptors than just about any other political group!

 

[butchersapron]

OK, I'll try something.
Anyone else find it a bit odd that the ISN is bigging up Ken Loach and his appeal for left unity considering he is a supporter of alleged rapist Julian Assange. Unless he has changed his mind and I missed it. Now I don't mean we should just write Loach off because of it, but if you read the (admittedly very limited) discussion on their forum the issue does not come up at all.

What party is he in and what similar stuff does he support? If you're saying the SWP is the same and so there is an equivalence then you've just fucked yourself. Is there an equivalence?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Don't be so clueless. I know they have. People realising they felt that way wasn't the point I started feeling this thread was losing its charm. Christ that was about post 200. It lost its charm when it became people in the SP who barely understand their own party's politics sniggering about ear biting in another as indicative of something meaningful :-(

Has the 'never really agreed with the politics' line served you so well you've decided to use it on members of other groups now?

 

[DotCommunist]

OK, I'll try something.
Anyone else find it a bit odd that the ISN is bigging up Ken Loach and his appeal for left unity considering he is a supporter of alleged rapist Julian Assange. Unless he has changed his mind and I missed it. Now I don't mean we should just write Loach off because of it, but if you read the (admittedly very limited) discussion on their forum the issue does not come up at all.

theres a radical idea that nobody has suggested ever in the history of the world

 

[butchersapron]

Hang on rmp3 I wanted to hear people's thoughts on emanymton's post.

No you don't. Or do you agree with emy that this is the same as what had happened in the SWP.

 

[ViolentPanda]

For the love of God could someone in the SWP/ISN please do/say/write something interesting!!!

Bit of presupposition there, surely?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Would this be an example of "hegemonising" (as I said, I'd never heard the word before):
It's not from the SWP. I don't think the SWP have candidate members, do they? Which presumably makes it easier to join/be recruited.

But I see that Weekly Worker who are among their fiercest critics do. In fact it seems to fit in perfectly with your explanation of the word:
These examples would seem to confirm what I said about lots of groups engaging in "hegemonising".

in fact if you go back through the thread, you will see the SWP being criticised for not carrying out these kinds of measures you have illustrated. Kind of, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

PS. I am not in any way defending the SWP, just pointing out the hypocrisy of the arguments marshalled against them on here.

 

[TremulousTetra]

And you've had the gall to call me a pedant.

oh come on, it's almost every post from you.

 

[discokermit]

OK, I'll try something.
Anyone else find it a bit odd that the ISN is bigging up Ken Loach and his appeal for left unity considering he is a supporter of alleged rapist Julian Assange. Unless he has changed his mind and I missed it. Now I don't mean we should just write Loach off because of it, but if you read the (admittedly very limited) discussion on their forum the issue does not come up at all.

are you a member of isn? if not, you can't access their forum.

 

[butchersapron]

OK, I'll try something.
Anyone else find it a bit odd that the ISN is bigging up Ken Loach and his appeal for left unity considering he is a supporter of alleged rapist Julian Assange. Unless he has changed his mind and I missed it. Now I don't mean we should just write Loach off because of it, but if you read the (admittedly very limited) discussion on their forum the issue does not come up at all.

Explain exactly and slowly who here is trapped by the logic? Explain the similarity to covering rape up as a policy and condition of party membership as opposed to being a bit of dim-wit. Explain why you posted this.

 

[TremulousTetra]

He was telling me off for using the wrong adjective a few pages ago. I wasn't as it goes but regardless. Back in your box boss' pet.

even the boss is a hypocrite. He gives instructions not to respond to me, and then responds to me.

 

[DotCommunist]

PS. I am not in any way defending the SWP,

relentlesly