SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Nigel Irritable]

Or alternatively he could do the Michael Rosen thing "as a friend, can I tell you..." , which may be quite effective - I think Michael Rosen's piece, along with the need to get speakers for the impending Marxism may well inspired Julie Sherry's attempt to come out of the shadows and make a 'reasonable' case , rather than the previous LENIN! Splitters! approach.

There's probably also an element of them moving on from the last phase of the internal war and trying to "turn outwards". Which means doing at least a little to try to repair their reputation, something they weren't too bothered about when the war against Seymour was in full swing.

I'm still expecting a hyperactive burst of "turning outwards" now, which will probably make them quite annoying to people in campaigns, unions etc until the adrenaline wears off and demoralisation sets in.

 

[Jean-Luc]

There's a critique of Chris Harman's Leninism here which he expressed in a pamphlet he wrote drawing the conclusion that May 1968 had failed because of the lack of a vanguard party to direct operations. I wonder what would have happened if he had still been around.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Sheffield
Sunday April 14, 2 p.m.
Walkley Community Centre
Fir Street (off South Road)
S6 3TG

Right, who has some decent links to stuff about this north bloke and his union busting capitalist ways? This lot have been pissing me off for a while, and this meeting just happens to be up the road from me. I think it might be payback time.

frogwoman - I seem to remember you telling me some stuff about this - don't suppose you've got any links or anything?

 

[frogwoman]

I do aye

http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=30939 I haven't read all of the links in that piece but it looks pretty well referenced. There's also a piece by one of their ex members which I'll dig out shortly

 

[frogwoman]

http://squirrelcommunism.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/trotskyist-scandal.html

http://www.bolshevik.org/Leaflets/GRPI_puzzle.html (from the IBT, but weirdly they're often pretty reliable when it comes to this kind of stuff)

 

[SpineyNorman]

http://squirrelcommunism.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/trotskyist-scandal.html

http://www.bolshevik.org/Leaflets/GRPI_puzzle.html (from the IBT, but weirdly they're often pretty reliable when it comes to this kind of stuff)

Cheers mate - this is gonna be fun, might even video it

 

[Jean-Luc]

Personally I don't mind discussing here the "Socialist Equality Party" as one Trotskyist organisation amongst many but there is actually a thread on them here:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/socialist-equality-party.248995/

 

[Nigel Irritable]

For once I agree with Jean Luc.

 

[Sean Delaney]

Guy Smallman not a member of the SWP!? I am pretty damn sure he was my district organiser in south London, at the time Blair got elected in 1997.

We used to call him The Coathanger on account of his unfeasibly wide shoulders and long arms. Lovely bloke but devoid of personality. Turned out to order in an SWP factory for fulltimers.

I stand to be corrected. I think he went on to be the Svengali behind Globalise Resistance. Last time I saw him we were picketing Kissengers' visit to the Royal Albert Hall pre 2001. Tell me I have got the wrong GS! It would depress me that he is not only a liar, but also still an automaton swp HACK.

 

[butchersapron]

That's Guy Taylor.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That's Guy Taylor.

Did he go with Counterfire?

 

[Sean Delaney]

argh...yes...apologies to Guy Smallman. Who is a non member member of the SWP

 

[emanymton]

Did he go with Counterfire?

Yep.

 

[Sean Delaney]

After reading this transcript as published on the Weekly Worker, I sympathise with M Smith and the SWP!

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/954/swp-leadership-crisis-if-you-dont-talk-about-it

It reeks of small minded group think for sure (Sean Vernell would have to be implicated in there somewhere wouldn't he!?) but the chap getting expelled comes across as a bit of a weasel.

The SWP imported the worst side of Hegelian marxism, via Lenin's lopsided critique of Hegel's Logic (the ghost of John Rees lingers) The SWP go with this whole 'mood' and 'spirit' thing. Start rapping about 'mood' and 'spirit' and it can all be very arbitrary, hence some ordinary john gets expelled for daring to pontificate on the whys and wherefores of obscurantist leninist philosophy, meanwhile some cocksucking cannibal who bites off other comrade's ears/etc. gets a slap on the wrist.

The SWP is into the cult of personality - its a macho thing about 'being hard' and 'tough.' Having such attributes are essential if you are a revolutionary, but it ends up being a DISASTER if It is bound up with this misreading of Hegelian dialectics as a semi-messianic belief in the revolution being a case of will and determination and so this is the mess they wind up in.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

cocksucking?

 

[discokermit]

cocksucking?

yeh. that's the bad part. not the fact the bloke bit part of a comrades ear off.

 

[Sean Delaney]

ammended

 

[bolshiebhoy]

deleted

 

[Sean Delaney]

you have to admit..it does defy all laws of rationality and reason that such a specimen should not only be allowed to rejoin the SWP, but is made into a FULL TIME ORGANISER! Is this not just unfuckingbelievable? What kind of culture does that bacterium foster exactly?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yep.

Think he's doing much better and more important work now to be honest, fairplay to the bloke.

 

[treelover]

"It reeks of small minded group think for sure (Sean Vernell would have to be implicated in there somewhere wouldn't he!?) but the chap getting expelled comes across as a bit of a weasel."


was he, Vernell, in Sheffield at some point?, if so fanatic..

 

[treelover]

Think he's doing much better and more important work now to be honest, fairplay to the bloke.

waht sort of work?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

"It reeks of small minded group think for sure (Sean Vernell would have to be implicated in there somewhere wouldn't he!?) but the chap getting expelled comes across as a bit of a weasel."


was he, Vernell, in Sheffield at some point?, if so fanatic..

Yes he was in Sheffield.

You're a fanatic by the way though so I'm not sure you should be flinging that around as an insult

 

[treelover]

''The SWP is into the cult of personality - its a macho thing about 'being hard' and 'tough.' Having such attributes are essential if you are a revolutionary, but it ends up being a DISASTER if It is bound up with this misreading of Hegelian dialectics as a semi-messianic belief in the revolution being a case of will and determination and so this is the mess they wind up in.''

well image and reality are certainly at odds there...

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

waht sort of work?

don't think it's for me to say - however he is involved in providing pracitical help and support to working class people in the UK irrespective of their politics

 

[treelover]

Yes he was in Sheffield.

You're a fanatic by the way though so I'm not sure you should be flinging that around as an insult

fuck you, I care about marginalised groups and in the past acted on it, you just drip cynicism all over the boards...

 

[bolshiebhoy]

you have to admit..it does defy all laws of rationality and reason that such a specimen should not only be allowed to rejoin the SWP, but is made into a FULL TIME ORGANISER! Is this not just unfuckingbelievable? What kind of culture does that bacterium foster exactly?

What exactly is your problem? I've been on demos with both the parties to the case you're talking about and they seemed a lot more grown up about it and less dramatic than you are. Get over yourself, people have rucks, make absolute idiots of themselves. Then they grow up. Or shall we have Seymour vet every future member of the London Soviet to make sure they didn't once watch Benny Hill.

 

[treelover]

found out his occupation, its a decent line of work, but all are working class are they?

 

[Sean Delaney]

don't think it's for me to say - however he is involved in providing pracitical help and support to working class people in the UK irrespective of their politics

yeah he had a good heart and was a humanoid compared to the other fulltimers I had the misfortune to know. Shame he wasted his time on the cocksucking swp but then we all live and learn

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

found out his occupation, its a decent line of work, but all are working class are they?

The ones that go to them yes, and thats all that matters.