SWP expulsions and squabbles

[sihhi]

eh?

Btw, is this true?

If that's true then we should also note that the author is the daughter of DS on the disputes committee panel that investigated the Delta case in 2012. He came out with this:

"it was very difficult to deal with incidents that happened three and a half years ago, and we never felt anyone was lying or making up (inaudible), I want to make that quite clear. But there were contradictions in what had taken place and how it had taken place. There were no witnesses to the events, and there was nothing in terms of evidence and detail that would lead us to believe that Delta - that it was proved that Delta (inaudible)
We came to a compromise. The spirit of the 'not proven' was that. (inaudible) None of the speakers have said this - and I'd like to think Viv and Hannah - but there have been accusations made against the committee that we've acted as a whitewash for Delta, or as stooges for the central committee. I speak for myself, but it applies to everybody else [on the disputes committee]. I've dealt with disputes cases where I've been involved in expelling the full timer for the district, somebody that I'd worked with for years, who'd been a former CC member, who I'd built a friendship with. It was a painful experience, it damaged the district, I can't say I'm proud of what happened, but we didn't balk at that. We would have taken action against Delta if we thought it was merited."

Bizarre mention of removing a pest from a full-timer position as 'damaging the district'

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

eh?

That's how David North can be in two places at once - nowadays you can have a live video link up between two locations at little or no cost.

 

[butchersapron]

That's how David North can be in two places at once - nowadays you can have a live video link up between two locations at little or no cost.

Sorry, thought that you meant a link to a video about the SWP had been put up somewhere.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Sorry, thought that you meant a link to a video about the SWP had been put up somewhere.

I suspected as much

 

[Scribbling S]

although not sure DS of the Disputes Committee is saying he was 'removing a pest' in the past- he says he expelled a full timer for the district who'd been a former CC member (wonder who it was ?He doesn't give a clue about when) but not what he was expelled for- I mean expulsions in my memory were more typically for political issues - so in fairness he might have been expelling this guy for some other non-pest reason. It is bonkers, though, to have a daughter of a DC member on the CC. Also , odd that "we came to a compromise" - ie something was awry but we couldn't say what. I know everyone keeps running round this , but it is so bananas that the compromise isn't "Dear Delta, you'd better leave all leadership roles for a few years and go off to the Job Centre to get a few years working in the fields under yr belt to avoid any possible issues
"

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Btw, is this true? [Why was it considered acceptable for Delta to be investigated by a panel of his mates (including his ex-girlfriend)?]

It can't be; I cannot believe they would have done that.

You cannot have somebody who has been in a relationship with the person under investigation carrying out the investigation; it is completely and obviouly hugely unfair/compromising for all involed.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[sihhi]

although not sure DS of the Disputes Committee is saying he was 'removing a pest' in the past- he says he expelled a full timer for the district who'd been a former CC member (wonder who it was ?He doesn't give a clue about when) but not what he was expelled for- I mean expulsions in my memory were more typically for political issues - so in fairness he might have been expelling this guy for some other non-pest reason. It is bonkers, though, to have a daughter of a DC member on the CC. Also , odd that "we came to a compromise" - ie something was awry but we couldn't say what. I know everyone keeps running round this , but it is so bananas that the compromise isn't "Dear Delta, you'd better leave all leadership roles for a few years and go off to the Job Centre to get a few years working in the fields under yr belt to avoid any possible issues"

Oh God yes, I had in my mind it was something like domestic violence or similar, D Sherry could be comparing a political demotion with the charges against Delta.

Also, why did the SWP choose Julie Sherry to be the author the Guardian piece surely someone with a non-family connection to the DC would have been better?

 

[belboid]

blimey, Guy Smallman wasn't a member of the SWP. He was always around so much when I was in London, I always assumed he must be (in ref to the latest post on the Guardian article)

 

[sihhi]

I know everyone keeps running round this , but it is so bananas that the compromise isn't "Dear Delta, you'd better leave all leadership roles for a few years and go off to the Job Centre to get a few years working in the fields under yr belt to avoid any possible issues"

"Compromise" for higher ups over rape/sexual harassment.

Expulsion for lower downs over political deviance

Martin Smith: Well, you are because I'll make it for you instead. I'm not leaving this room without one answer or the other. I don't care personally. I've gone through every democratic structure in the organisation. Everyone's agreed. Everyone was completely horrified when they read that. That alone you let off a smoking gun. Secondly I know you were warned by Sean Vernell. I know you've been argued with by me. I know you've been argued with by Viv. And it goes on and on and on. And I'm sick of it. I'm sick of that Socialist Alliance which I think is absolutely rotten to the core. And I think you have been part of that. I think that you have done absolutely nothing to change it. You've gone along with every little sectarian manoeuvre by the RDG to the stage now where we have them passing motions attacking the party, which is completely out of order and completely condemned by anyone. And just think ... I've had enough of it ... We've done extremely well, we had a very good public meeting on Thursday. We've had a very good intervention around Vauxhall.

Eric Karas: I was at the public meeting.

Martin Smith I know you was, so you know how good it was.

Eric Karas: I don't know if I would agree with that.

Martin Smith Well, that doesn't matter anyway now ... we have a very good branch in Luton. We've done extremely well. The comrades are doing the best they can. And all you are ... is a different set of politics to us and that's it.

Eric Karas: Well, I'm not going to resign.

Martin Smith: Well, now you're formally expelled.

 

[butchersapron]

blimey, Guy Smallman wasn't a member of the SWP. He was always around so much when I was in London, I always assumed he must be (in ref to the latest post on the Guardian article)

He might as well be with that pathetic post.

 

[treelover]

The far left at its best exposing sexism everywhere and in everything.

I think SU has deleted the article, probabably for the best..

 

[sihhi]

Apparently the problem with 'a certain brand of marxism' (no prizes for guessing which one) is that it encourages 'Man with Analysis' and 'Communist Urgent Man' who just doesn't have time for womens problems. Who knew. Not that 'Anarchist Action Man' eescapes criticism mind.

And I only mention the following because it seems to amuse/annoy people when I bring up Sheila Rowbotham. But who does Abbie quote to demonstrate that this blindspot in the IS is nothing new? You got it! But of course the newest exiles from the IS share nothing with previous socialist feminists. Those old arguments are dogmatic and modern feminism is completely sui generis as Seymour would say.

It might be clumsily expressed, but at the risk of being called "swamp" or backward Marxist, her basic point is not inaccurate - there is sadly counterproductive and empty trivialisation of women's concern's within the various bits of 'the movement' and this overwhelmingly does come from male participants and maybe in particular its leading and/or charismatic figures.

Also Bakan makes one quote of Rowsbotham's from 1973, but repeatedly refers to other figures since that 1973 work - Adrienne Roberts, Janet Conway, Serena Bassi and Lara Coleman, Johanna Brenner. Also the economic side is well grounded by the references to Kate Bezanson and Meg Luxton's 2006 book Social Reproduction: Feminist Political Economy Challenges Neo-Liberalism.

Yes it's very academic, yes bits of it were hard for me to understand, but that's sort of what it's like in Canadian academia - are there criticisms of Kieran Allen for being an academic, or for positively quoting a sentence from someone who is a liberal?

Can anyone actually criticise Bakan's basic point that "Generic dismissal of feminist critique renders engagement with socialist feminist contributions to Marxism to be uninteresting or unimportant"?
When she was writing in 2008 it had to a degree become reflexive in leftist publications to either not review or basically to dismiss "bourgeois" feminist criticisms of capitalism and sexism without really analysing them seriously or giving enough space to them (simply because they come from academia / that's all the work of women's studies units detached from the working-class etc), meaning that genuine socialist feminist analysis that does break new ground such Bezanson and Luxton is also downplayed.

And when was the last time any left group gave space within its publication for a feminist or a socialist criticism of that left group by one of its members?

Bakan's criticisms from within the left is not rehashing old stuff, if it sounds old it's because the largely male behaviour in question has been around a long time and hasn't gone away.

 

[barney_pig]

blimey, Guy Smallman wasn't a member of the SWP. He was always around so much when I was in London, I always assumed he must be (in ref to the latest post on the Guardian article)

Just read that, just assumed he was another of those non member members that pop up all over the place whenever the SWP are criticised.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Funny he claims to have been an anarchist all that time, I'm sure he was in the SLP for some of it

 

[sihhi]

He might as well be with that pathetic post.

Wow.

I've never joined the SWP for a whole load of reasons (the main one being I'm an anarchist) and never will. But I have worked closely enough with them for nearly 20 years. Firstly as an organiser for the Anti Nazi League in the 90's and more recently as supplier of images (and occasional writer) for their newspaper and publications.

An anarchist ANL organiser in the 1990s. Is he part of the Cliffite/IS tradition? LOL

I know them far better than most.

They're my mates, sorta, leave off them.

Having never attended their conference I'm in no position to comment on this bloody awful mess. But I do think that things should be put in perspective here.

Not attending the conference means I'll attack other non-attenders who take the matter seriously by doing a "in no position to comment" approach.

The accused individual and this committee add up to no more than 8 people in an organisation of thousands.

Except these figures are the leadership the power structures have moulded this into a very bitter relationship.
500+500 does not equal thousands.

For the past few decades they have provided the framework and space for people to do something about the issues that matter. Whether it is organising those meetings and protests against the cuts, or building inclusive structures to take on the likes of the EDL, they have always delivered the goods. The goods in question may seem past their sell by date and not to everyone's taste. But what else is on offer on the shelves?

Remember folks - Labour or the SWP - that's all there has been, is, or ever will be.

Some of their achievements have been occasionally spectacular. They were the beating heart of the movement that pulled off the million strong demo against the war ten years ago.

A movement they used to kill the Socialist Alliance to launch a shibboleth-free recruiting front which

They helped unseat a Labour MP in the East End with a left wing alternative during the height of Blairism.

unseated to be seated with a rape-denying, anti-abortion, anti-lesbian parenting nutcase

Meanwhile their sister organisation in Greece seems is one of the few groups keeping those Golden Dawn lunatics in check and offering active and consistent solidarity to refugees and migrants trapped in Athens.

Greek bluster.

Because like it or lump it there is no organisation to the left of Labour (the pro war/cuts/Murdoch/police party) ,that is in any position to fill the void, if the SWP was to melt down. That means no one to build those demos, book those coaches, have the argument and be a consistent and disciplined thorn in the side of the political mainstream.

Anyone who gives a shit about the issues talked about above should perhaps try and remember that.

ie 'Don't give a shit about the rape and sexual harassment, botching of trials, secrecy around rape and botching of trials, rigged conferences' let them carry on doing those demos with coaches so I can continue to take photographs.

 

[ibilly99]

The fact that they have a whole sub-section devoted to explaining why sex abuse charges against Roman Polanski shouldn't be heard suggests there is some kind of weirder more generalised possibly chauvinist problem.

Visited the link and was like going down a wormhole - classic Dave Spart letter on the subject.

The media spectacle around Roman Polanski is disgraceful, but also depressingly predictable. At a time when the US-led coalition in Afghanistan is facing its heaviest losses and formulating plans to bludgeon the Afghani population into submission, right wing reptiles, newspaper editors and feminists march around in high dudgeon, fulminating about Polanski. The hypocrisy is sickening.
Eric G
South Africa
8 October 2009

 

[tedsplitter]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/swp-cover-up-rape-complaint

 

[Nigel Irritable]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/swp-cover-up-rape-complaint

Ouch. It was a mistake for the SWP to get into this row in the pages of CIF. A minor mistake, given the backdrop, but definitely a mistake.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

"We will take no lessons from the Daily Mail, Sherry says. How right she is. With a record like this, who needs lessons from the Daily Mail?" What a disgusting little turd he is.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Ouch. It was a mistake for the SWP to get into this row in the pages of CIF. A minor mistake, given the backdrop, but definitely a mistake.

Maybe they have an over inflated idea of their ability to use the media in the party's defence.

Anyway as an exercise it has served to show exactly the sort of anti-working class, anti-socialist elements that the splitters are siding with; in doing so it will play a useful part in identifying enemies for what they really are.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. I had written the above before BB posted.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Maybe they have an over inflated idea of their ability to use the media in the party's defence.

I don't understand their media strategy at all. First of all they refused to engage for months, bar giving a few terse responses to inquiries. Then yesterday, they decide to defend themselves, rather weakly, in an outlet that a number of their antagonists actually write for and where the reception can be guaranteed to be extra hostile.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

"We will take no lessons from the Daily Mail, Sherry says. How right she is. With a record like this, who needs lessons from the Daily Mail?" What a disgusting little turd he is.

Come of it, bb. You can hardly blame him for taking the rhetorical equivalent of a tap in after Sherry and the SWP had done all the work of setting him up with an open goal.

 

[butchersapron]

This is the sort of ground on which they will be massacred - which is one of the reasons they require the stitch ups, the lies, the smears, the paranoia, the fear internally.

Every Prussian carries his gendarme in his breast.

 

[chilango]

Isn't this all over yet?

Let the dead bury the dead.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Isn't this all over yet?

God no. It took two years for the relatively trivial Counterfire/ISG split to play itself out. This is going to run and run.

 

[Scribbling S]

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the Guy Smallman piece, but I'm not sure it has the force he wants - "The SWP do loads of important stuff, so shouldn't collapse over mishandled rape allegations" is actually as much an argument for ditching 'Delta' and Callinicos and issuing all round apologies as anything : "Delta" is no longer effective, Callinicos would obviously have trouble organising a wine party in the Senior Common Room ('Professor, the college is on fire !' 'this 1000 word essay on Leninism should do the trick') , and the whole thing ain't fair anyway. They can always appoint another Alex Callinicos.

 

[sihhi]

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the Guy Smallman piece, but I'm not sure it has the force he wants - "The SWP do loads of important stuff, so shouldn't collapse over mishandled rape allegations" is actually as much an argument for ditching 'Delta' and Callinicos and issuing all round apologies as anything : "Delta" is no longer effective, Callinicos would obviously have trouble organising a wine party in the Senior Common Room ('Professor, the college is on fire !' 'this 1000 word essay on Leninism should do the trick') , and the whole thing ain't fair anyway. They can always appoint another Alex Callinicos.

The arrogance of 'it's SWP or Labour' is astonishing.
If he wants it to not collapse he should join it, so that it can replace its well over 100+ and 4 branch bleeding wound - and then work from the inside to ensure that all the current CC resign and they can start over... now who could have thought of that before.

 

[Scribbling S]

Or alternatively he could do the Michael Rosen thing "as a friend, can I tell you..." , which may be quite effective - I think Michael Rosen's piece, along with the need to get speakers for the impending Marxism may well inspired Julie Sherry's attempt to come out of the shadows and make a 'reasonable' case , rather than the previous LENIN! Splitters! approach.

 

[frogwoman]

Is recruitathon still going ahead this year? the fuck do they think anyone will turn up?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Funny he claims to have been an anarchist all that time, I'm sure he was in the SLP for some of it

There must be something in the chemicals photographers use. One of the people who has been responsible for providing the SP with photographs for years is sort of like a reverse Smallman. Instead of being a non-member who is indistinguishable from a member to the naked eye, he is actually a member but has politics which seem so far removed from those of the SP that you'd never suspect.