SWP expulsions and squabbles

[articul8]

The association of musical Marxists website is absolutely bonkers IMO. I spent several minutes listening to some esweirdo who lives in Stockport ( prime candidate for tarring and feathering if his neighbours ever hear his music) who records him flicking paper clips or tapping a paper whilst he sits at work in a call centre. Nuts.

I think I met that guy - he used to live in Levenshulme

 

[emanymton]

What are/were the accusations against Martin Smith?

I honestly don't the details, other than they are of a sexual nature, it was taken before the disputes committee, which was split on the issue and a lot of people are very angry about it.

 

[LiamO]

Paris is a good bloke. The SWP should be striving for more like him, working-class and pretty ordinary. A great loss to the SWP although its not surprising they've got rid of him, they were bound to do it at some point..

That's WHY they got rid of him.

Everything changes ... and everything remains the same.

 

[discokermit]

That's WHY they got rid of him.

no it isn't.

 

[The39thStep]

i really like them, though they're a mixed bag. they republished that Jim Higgins book recently (which was a blatant provocation against the CC and the SWPs undemocratic culture) and several of Andrew Wilson's articles on organisational culture within the SWP make some genius observations (amidst a sometimes incomprehensible array of flash zappa-isms and maverick theories).

it's all fun though, which is refreshing...

edit: note the forward by John Game, arch Seymourite and former anti-democratic stalwart

I am all for fun and fun for all

 

[Fedayn]

The association of musical Marxists website is absolutely bonkers IMO. I spent several minutes listening to some esweirdo who lives in Stockport ( prime candidate for tarring and feathering if his neighbours ever hear his music) who records him flicking paper clips or tapping a paper whilst he sits at work in a call centre. Nuts.

Lusty will have all his recordings then

 

[The39thStep]

Everyone working class is called Fred. or Bob.

Bit bad giving a bloke a girls name though

 

[discokermit]

Bit bad giving a bloke a girls name though

maybe it made him tough. like in "a boy named sue".

 

[Delroy Booth]

Bit bad giving a bloke a girls name though

 

[mk12]

I think Adam Marks used to work in head office in about 2006-7.

 

[Cornetto]

The association of musical Marxists website is absolutely bonkers IMO. I spent several minutes listening to some esweirdo who lives in Stockport ( prime candidate for tarring and feathering if his neighbours ever hear his music) who records him flicking paper clips or tapping a paper whilst he sits at work in a call centre. Nuts.

Sounds like something Mr Lustabther would like.

 

[Cornetto]

Bit bad giving a bloke a girls name though

The face don't fit the name either, I know the estate he is from. Paris is a nice bloke and a good comrade.

 

[The39thStep]

The face don't fit the name either, I know the estate he is from. Paris is a nice bloke and a good comrade.

Don't doubt it for one minute. I had a mate who was a huge fireman called Fern ( got beat up by Dessie Noonan as it goes).

 

[ayatollah]

Beyond the understandable glee felt by some olde members of the SWP Expellee Club on here at the apparent continuing internal meltdown of the SWP... what does it all mean in the bigger political picture ? Most posters only seem interested in the minutiae of the infighting. However, It can't be accidental that rather than experiencing massive growth in the context of the most serious systemic capitalist crisis since the 1930's , no-one on the revolutionery (or radical) Left or fascist Right is growing in the UK. In fact , as in the BNP and SWP cases, key organisations are locked in internal infighting and falling apart.

It might seem unfair to lump in both Far Left and Far Right together as afflicted by the same basic problems, but I suspect this is so. Namely, all the well established Far Left and Far Right organisations got stuck in political practices and tactics which fitted their survival in the long fruitless neo-Liberalist years of economic growth - and now they're all organisationally "unfit for purpose" in the new era of the Long Slump. Leaving aside the Far Right's current shambolic malaise (and thank gawd for that) - currently outpaced by the radical petty nationalism and" polite racism" of UKIP -- what about the deeper issues behind the SWP's failure ? In theory every Revolutionery Left grouping should be gleefully recruiting members with a "told you capitalism was in crisis" (for the entire post War period though) mantra. Instead the SWP , and as far as I can tell, noone else has really significantly recruited since the 2008 Crash.

It is true that for both Far Right and Far Left , the problem is that in the UK itself the impact of "austerity" on masses of people is only now starting to kick in - so few people have been forced to reject traditional reformist politics yet (unlike , say, in Greece). This is a situation unlikely to last however. The crisis aint going to go away, or "get better" any time soon. In the meantime it appears that the SWP has so locked itself into a bureaucratic cult mentality, that it will find it very difficult to grow even when/if the opportunity arises . This is partly down to the inflexibility and dogmatism of the Trotskyist/Leninist organisational and political tradition. But, being harsh, one has to ask just what sort of people have wanted to completely fruitlessly work inside as fulltimers or be active members of "revolutionery" socialist organisations for the last 30 years ? I'm afraid all too many are likely to have been "middle class" political cultists/lifestyle Lefties, rather than real revolutionery socialists willing to really take personal risks and able to motivate and lead masses of newly radicalised workers when circumstances change. Just look at that key Guru of the SWP, Alex Callinicos. The man who thinks it "isn't "his role in the Party" to confront fascists (as retold in BTF)-- basically isn't his role to take personal risks - but just seemlessly meld his academic career with the comfortable life of party ideologue. Not going to face up to the new challenges of a society in turmoil is he ?

The new times ahead will find most (not all of course) of the existing members of "revolutionery" Left organisations completely freaked out by the personal hazards and challenges of this new era of crisis - particularly the "Old Guard" of full time Party hacks, whose entire careers were spent in the obsessive small sect politics/opportunist plotting of the last 30 years of political stasis.

Unlike some on this thread, who will no doubt wish to draw the conclusion that because as currently configured the UK revolutionery Left is manifestly "unfit for purpose" .. that socialist politics themselves are irrelevant - I just think the current crisis in the SWP is simply an inevitable stage on the Left as the growing social/political crisis tests existing organisational forms and personnel , and politics, to destruction. Hopefully out of this painful process will come more dynamic, better revolutionery socialist organisations - buoyed up eventually by lots of radicalised working class fresh blood recruits, as the capitalist crisis really bites in the UK. May be a few years off yet though. Nevertheless look at the growth of the (reformist but radical Left) Syriza in Greece , or Golden Dawn too of course unfortunately (!) to see how radically politics can change when the economic shit really hits the fan. In the meantime, it looks looks its faction fighting and organisational splitting/recombining time on the Far Left (much as has chaotically, and so far unsuccessfully, happened on the Far Right over the last few years).

 

[JHE]

The reason the far left is not prospering is that it has not got a convincing account of a socialist society to present to its potential supporters/recruits. This is not a problem specific to Trots. It is a much wider and, IMO, the biggest problem faced by all of us who would like to replace capitalism with a society based on common ownership and planning subordinated to democracy.

The Social Workers' particular problems are, I reckon, in significant part a slightly belated consequence of Cliff's death. While he was alive, 'the party' was so much his group that the show could be kept on the road. Without the old man's magic touch, the wheels come off, the drivers fall out, blame each other for their common failures and fight over the steering wheel. Meanwhile, the passengers become disgruntled and start to disbelieve what they are told by the drivers.

Cliff died 12 years ago. His heirs have done quite well to keep the Cliffmobile chugging on this far.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It's worth it for this pic alone though:

Got to say I'm not convinced it was necessary to have this pic on the site, it's put me right off me carrots

And since I had to endure it I decided to inflict it on you lot too

 

[imposs1904]

Persistent wearing of Fred Perry shirts

I'm Spartacus

 

[Athos]

I'm Spartacus

I'm Dave Spart!

 

[SpineyNorman]

the difference with this lot is that they've have gotten further in terms of reform within the party than any other group, and have already achieved a massive shift in internal discourse and culture within the central party apparatus. using external groups like the Association of Musical Marxists and the Revolutionary History Journal as bases, they've been able to indirectly and provocatively front discussions on the nature of party democracy in essentially open forums and disseminate these debates around the party cadre quite effectively. Paris has been openly in opposition to the CC since he was booted after disagreeing with the UAF strategy for the last Bradford demonstration, and if anything has increased his influence within party circles during that period.

that's one of the reasons that these expulsions are quite a big deal; the CC know they're going to face a pretty significant revolt from within some of their most formerly loyal ranks about it. essentially, by expelling Paris and the rest they have openly declared that their own clique's control over the organisation is worth more to them than the organisation surviving or failing.

if they did get back in, they might genuinely have a chance to upset things - and it should be made clear that though they are appealing their expulsions they are not grovelling. not an inch is being given to the CC over the issues on which these members want to return to the party - i genuinely don't believe Paris Thompson in particular is capable of grovelling.

if they get back in it will represent a major - perhaps even lethal - defeat for the present ruling clique of the party. if they don't, there will be a major and perhaps lethal split.

Hi DU

The bit I've put in bold sounds interesting - can you expand on it please? Were the discussions had in the publications put out by these groups or do you mean they've used the networks these groups provide to speak to members from other regions etc?

I say best of luck to them anyway, the CC constantly shows utter contempt for the membership and although I haven't been in the SWP for a while now I've got a lot of respect for a lot of people in that party and they deserve better - gotta say I don't rate their chances but if they can get rid of the CC and get some proper democratic debate going on that's got to be a good thing - and not just for the SWP IMO.

 

[butchersapron]

Worst of luck to them. Wasting time. Maybe they can now inject leninist discipline elsewhere.

 

[bignose1]

Got to say I'm not convinced it was necessary to have this pic on the site, it's put me right off me carrots

Fucking great torpedos imo

And since I had to endure it I decided to inflict it on you lot too

 

[bignose1]

I'm Spartacus

Im Scartacus

 

[butchersapron]

I would certainly stop my criticisms of the SWP if they had better more consistent leninists at the top table. I think the class would give more of a shit too. And look at you going ooh paris is working class - what does that tell you? That you need to point that out? What situation have you put up with enough to point out that he's working class?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Not sure if that's directed at me but I've never met this Paris fella, got no idea whether he's working class or not and couldn't really give a shit either way. Just think it would be better if they had the opportunity to seriously debate stuff without fear of getting booted out - I don't even know what they mean about more consistent Leninists to be honest.

 

[butchersapron]

It was directed to the anarchist cornetto and the leninist DU. That better opp means fuck all as well- look at the state of it.

 

[fiannanahalba]

maybe it made him tough. like in "a boy named sue".

He certainly is a courageous and capable lad from what ive seen of him against fascists.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Were the discussions had in the publications put out by these groups or do you mean they've used the networks these groups provide to speak to members from other regions etc?

the latter, basically - both the groups are separate entities which exist in their own right (none of the main members of AMM are members of the SWP, not anymore at least) but both have an overlap and niche interest in SWP politics. the AMM, for example, reprinting the Higgins book mentioned earlier was massively provocative to the SWP CC, and the primary readership of that book and most of their other publications will have been from active members of the SWP. similarly, Andy Wilson has been regularly publishing polemics on his time in the SWP voicing his criticisms of the internal culture, which have played in tandem with the arguments Paris's circle have been having openly within the organisation. basically, it's nothing more than that the groups have both enabled a pole of interest to develop and discuss party issues 'abstractly', in full frontal view of the most important and dedicated members of the organisation.

i do wish the group luck but personally, i wouldn't be rejoining the SWP any time soon either way. in that regard, if i'm honest i would prefer them to be out of it and looking to build something else - though obviously that decision isn't up to me. i've got the greatest respect for all four of the expellees and numerous others who've patiently worked over the past few years to improve the organisation.

 

[butchersapron]

And they circle the SWP for evermore. Evermore.

 

[Red Cat]

Trapped in the circles of hell.

 

[Das Uberdog]

i don't think so this time.