SWP expulsions and squabbles

[butchersapron]

Part 2

 

[butchersapron]

We caucused.

 

[butchersapron]

Who and where are they then after this epic two month fight?

The fact is, I didn't really need to have made my speech. I wasn't saying anything that people didn't know. The students, it turned out, were miles ahead of me and every other presuming old git. Their speeches were crisp, politically lucid, tactically sharp. They fully understood the responsibility they were undertaking. Contrary to what some might have feared, they had no desire to fly off in ultra-left directions, or simply resign the party if they didn't win overnight. They were digging in for a long fight.

 

[sihhi]

Do you want to buy a paper? No thanks i'm a communist. They love that.

Updated version: Do you want to buy a paper? No thanks, I'm a creeping feminist.

 

[sihhi]

We caucused.

must be borne in mind in connection with the slightly ouvrieriste strain in Hitchens's politics

 

[dennisr]

Please just stop responding to him on this thread.

actually - please stop responding to the troll on any thread

 

[treelover]

''Later that week, I spoke to a member of the CC, one of those nurturing a secret dissent, over coffee. He seemed sane, and gave the impression that he was ready to take a stand and lose his job. But he defended the expulsion of the four members - even though, when I suggested that it looked like a bureaucratic manoeuvre to stymy debate, he gave me a look which suggested that this wasn't implausible. He also tried to say that "the reach of attack blogs like Socialist Unity and the Association of Musical Marxists is not very big". I said, "if there are people on the CC who are making this argument, they are out of their minds. They couldn't conceal Gerry Healy's actions back in the 1980s, before the internet; this is going to be in the Daily Mail! All the papers that hate our guts will love this." "Yeah, I know," he said. "The nightmare scenario is an attack piece by Laurie Penny."



There really is the Millwall attitude in all that and what on earth are 'attack publications'?

 

[sihhi]

There really is the Millwall attitude in all that and what on earth are 'attack publications'?

1. It says there. Sites like AMM and Socialist Unity that share the same Trotsykist worldview but attack the SWP with a special vengeance because they were unfairly expelled from it in the past.

2. Socialist Worker not a trace of the Special Conference.

Its letters page has its obligatory shielding pro-feminist but quite bland letter.

Sexism isn’t a natural thing
I was sorry to see the treatment of women taking part in a recent debate at the Glasgow University Union.
Male students shouted sexist insults. Thankfully, many other people are against sexism. The women have received messages supporting them from all over the world.
Helena Rowe, Dundee

It's interesting, although SWP members can't associate with one another via facebook to discuss politics, submissions to the weekly publication can be made for or via facebook. So that people can then follow the link to sign a petition:

Fight to save fire services
Fight fire cuts—sign and share a petition at epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/39494

Jim Wedgbury, on Facebook

Lots of details of various celebratory events for Women's Day but only this snippet of discussion about any further action:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=30800

There was a lively discussion particularly around how to oppose the “Unilad” culture in the colleges where lads’ mags on sale in the students’ union.

 

[tony collins]

1. It says there. Sites like AMM and Socialist Unity that share the same Trotsykist worldview but attack the SWP with a special vengeance because they were unfairly expelled from it in the past.

None of us on SU have been expelled from the SWP.

 

[sihhi]

None of us on SU have been expelled from the SWP.

Didn't Andy Newman join the SWP at some point in the mid 1980s? And then get expelled or at least leave before expulsion at some later point

 

[butchersapron]

That was the DPK.

 

[Oisin123]

From part II, confirming Nigel's analysis, don't you think, bb?
"It was clear he thought that Counterfire and ISG had something to offer. Pleasant and insightful as he was, most of us thought his strategy wouldn't work, and we had no particular desire to go chasing after the two groups that had just split from the party. If the critique of the leadership was partly that it was undemocratic, the leaders of those split-away organisations hardly had clean hands. We made a point of opposing and attacking that strategy wherever we could."

 

[The39thStep]

1. It says there. Sites like AMM and Socialist Unity that share the same Trotsykist worldview but attack the SWP with a special vengeance because they were unfairly expelled from it in the past.

2. Socialist Worker not a trace of the Special Conference.

Its letters page has its obligatory shielding pro-feminist but quite bland letter.




It's interesting, although SWP members can't associate with one another via facebook to discuss politics, submissions to the weekly publication can be made for or via facebook. So that people can then follow the link to sign a petition:




Lots of details of various celebratory events for Women's Day but only this snippet of discussion about any further action:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=30800

The AMM might share the same view but that bunch of misfits, anoraks and obsessives on SU aren't even on the same planet

 

[andysays]

leading light Pat Stack, without the factions refusal to condemn it - called all non-swp people commenting on this 'filth'

The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, or maybe vice versa...

 

[butchersapron]

The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, or maybe vice versa...

Done your prep for the spring conference andy?

 

[killer b]

i just caucused. had to open the window for a bit straight after, the cat didn't look happy.

 

[andysays]

There is a real possibility here that the swp image will be too tarnished to recover from this or that being on the defensive about it saps their energy here on out... the unfortunate fact is this is going to make life very difficult for every hard working swp activist here on out. I never minded getting abuse at paper sales about the politics but how much can people take of being constantly accused of being complicit in the abuse of teenage women?!

At last!!! It's only taken 278 pages and nearly three months for you to get it. Well done!!!

 

[sihhi]

From part II, confirming Nigel's analysis, don't you think, bb?
"It was clear he thought that Counterfire and ISG had something to offer. Pleasant and insightful as he was, most of us thought his strategy wouldn't work, and we had no particular desire to go chasing after the two groups that had just split from the party. If the critique of the leadership was partly that it was undemocratic, the leaders of those split-away organisations hardly had clean hands. We made a point of opposing and attacking that strategy wherever we could."

Key people behind the formation of the faction for January and the new one for March were the Facebook 4.
This is what Paris thinks of Rees and German.

The right of comrades to propose slates should remain, but the election of comrades to the Central Committee should be on an individual basis. The monolithic style of leadership advocated and practised by Rees/German, while possibly serving a purpose in a period of working class defeat, has no place in a revolutionary party with the class in ascendency. Political differences should be openly acknowledged, with the debates open to the party. Different political tendencies should be represented on the CC, not suppressed behind a veil of “unity”. This would be an important step to fostering a culture of open and honest debate within the party.

Paris (Leeds & West Yorkshire)

http://www.unkant.com/2012/12/paris-political-engagement-and-party.html

They see them as monolithic leaders - something which on paper they want to get away from.

 

[andysays]

Done your prep for the spring conference andy?

(what I'm really looking for is a gobbing emoticon, but that will have to do)

 

[killer b]

oh, i seem to know one of the lads who's organising this spring conference thing. is markus on here?

 

[Before Theory]

So basically you want to deprive bolshiebhoy of his raison d'etre?

Lol, yes, he'll need to find something else to justify and apologize for, although I think even he is starting to realize the enormity of the consequences for the SWP.

 

[audiotech]

i genuinely don't get you

Part of the vanguard trawling trolling these parts.

 

[treelover]

1. It says there. Sites like AMM and Socialist Unity that share the same Trotsykist worldview but attack the SWP with a special vengeance because they were unfairly expelled from it in the past.

2. Socialist Worker not a trace of the Special Conference.

Its letters page has its obligatory shielding pro-feminist but quite bland letter.




It's interesting, although SWP members can't associate with one another via facebook to discuss politics, submissions to the weekly publication can be made for or via facebook. So that people can then follow the link to sign a petition:




Lots of details of various celebratory events for Women's Day but only this snippet of discussion about any further action:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=30800

Sheffield SWP have organised a major 'Unite The Resistance' Conference with Serwotka, and other big names a week on saturday, lots of SWP sympathisers are apparently going...

 

[DotCommunist]

the Association of Musical Marxists

Shouldn't crack up really but...


surely they must concentrate on jazz, the most unorthodox of musical forms

 

[killer b]

is it a coincidence they share an acronym with cornelius cardew's old free improv outfit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMM_(group)

 

[DotCommunist]

there are no coincidences

 

[barney_pig]

The troll has stopped asking if they've split yet.

 

[discokermit]

who would have thought i would be seeing that old is group pamphlet popping up everywhere nearly twenty years later. funny old world, eh?

 

[IC3D]

surely they must concentrate on jazz, the most unorthodox of musical forms

Nice..

 

[two sheds]

That's all done automatically now .