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SWP expulsions and squabbles

butchersapron said:
Not sure CM did a thing really, just accepted it and put his name to the wheel. Stack and Birchall - not convinced they were there for the right reasons myself.
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Mieville was on the faction steering committee and, apparently went to a bunch of meetings, branch, aggregate, faction, etc to argue the Platform (ie "hard" opposition) case.
 
interested to see Tony Collins of SU on here. SU deleted my posts about the SWP's behaviour in Tower Hamlets, below, a few days back and then barred me from SU, . [see other thread ] ... said it was absurd nonsense ( or some other ignorent phrase ) but of course could not provide a single word of refutation ... as tragically it is all true
.. and of course the irony of opposing the SWP leadership yet trying to shut down debate on the internet, as the SWP leadership tried to do.. hey ho. Tony you will be pleased to know SU provided 23 visits out of the 450 visitors and 650 views the blog has had.
http://durruti02.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/the-swp-rape-opportunism-power-and-ideology-how-the-swp-ended-up-working-in-tower-hamlets-with-fascists-war-criminals-and-those-who-carried-out-mass-rape-in-bangladesh/
 
Oisin123 said:
From part II, confirming Nigel's analysis, don't you think, bb?
"It was clear he thought that Counterfire and ISG had something to offer. Pleasant and insightful as he was, most of us thought his strategy wouldn't work, and we had no particular desire to go chasing after the two groups that had just split from the party. If the critique of the leadership was partly that it was undemocratic, the leaders of those split-away organisations hardly had clean hands. We made a point of opposing and attacking that strategy wherever we could."
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Well you've quoted just after the sentences where he says that this guy was advocating an immediate split. And later RS calls the desire to leave at once ultra left. I think the antipathy directed towards the former splitters was as much about that desire to stay in and win as many as possible (before leaving anyway!) which required putting the breaks on those who wanted to jump ship too early, as it did with the Platform's dislike of Rees, German and Bambery. So yes they detest each other as well. And that might well stop them ending up in the same organisation for some time. And then what? Two organisations with basically similar politics will stare each other out for the next five to ten years? Do they have to wait until the principal dramatis personae are dead or too doddery to shout at each other and then the membership can admit they should merge? Maybes so. Do they have major differences over dem cen and internal regime issues? Beyond the bad faith of Rees and German over their own previous practice, probably not.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Well you've quoted just after the sentences where he says that this guy was advocating an immediate split. And later RS calls the desire to leave at once ultra left. I think the antipathy directed towards the former splitters was as much about that desire to stay in and win as many as possible (before leaving anyway!) which required putting the breaks on those who wanted to jump ship too early, as it did with the Platform's dislike of Rees, German and Bambery. So yes they detest each other as well. And that might well stop them ending up in the same organisation for some time. And then what? Two organisations with basically similar politics will stare each other out for the next five to ten years? Do they have to wait until the principal dramatis personae are dead or too doddery to shout at each other and then the membership can admit they should merge? Maybes so. Do they have major differences over dem cen and internal regime issues? Beyond the bad faith of Rees and German over their own previous practice, probably not.
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You defend a cesspit of a party.
No, i was going to , but there is no point. You are a shithole.

Socialist - say yes.
 
durruti02 said:
interested to see Tony Collins of SU on here. SU deleted my posts about the SWP's behaviour in Tower Hamlets, below, a few days back and then barred me from SU, . [see other thread ] ... said it was absurd nonsense ( or some other ignorent phrase ) but of course could not provide a single word of refutation ... as tragically it is all true
.. and of course the irony of opposing the SWP leadership yet trying to shut down debate on the internet, as the SWP leadership tried to do.. hey ho. Tony you will be pleased to know SU provided 23 visits out of the 450 visitors and 650 views the blog has had.
http://durruti02.wordpress.com/2013...hose-who-carried-out-mass-rape-in-bangladesh/
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I would be interested to see how they would justify banning you for this! Does Newman think that it is okay for socialists to collaborate with Jamaat-e-Islami while they murder socialists in Bangladesh and attack them in Britain?
 
andysays said:
At last!!! It's only taken 278 pages and nearly three months for you to get it. Well done!!!
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Lol. But no, there is a balance between the measures the party adopts to rescue the situation and the mounting campaign of shit directed at them. That balance had to and still has to play itself out, the cc still hasn't lost all room for manoeuvre yet. but it's narrowing.

Plus the exit of SEYMOUR! et al should give the cc more room for manoeuvre. These people would have toppled the cc if they could have and the replacements would have buried the SWP as a Leninist organisation. So quite rightly the cc made beating them the priority. But now they've toddled off to do their own thing the remaining sets of people need to have a quieter, less acrimonious discussion about how the fuck they turn the image of the party round. The dc reform body is crucial to that, though it's not ideal that apparently all 11 (I think) places on it have gone to the loyalist faction. Not that I think the faction (minus the platform) are right on all this, I don't. But if the loyalists are serious about "listening" then there need to be some olive branches soon.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Lol. But no, there is a balance between the measures the party adopts to rescue the situation and the mounting campaign of shit directed at them. That balance had to and still has to play itself out, the cc still hasn't lost all room for manoeuvre yet. but it's narrowing.

Plus the exit of SEYMOUR! et al should give the cc more room for manoeuvre. These people would have toppled the cc if they could have and the replacements would have buried the SWP as a Leninist organisation. So quite rightly the cc made beating them the priority. But now they've toddled off to do their own thing the remaining sets of people need to have a quieter, less acrimonious discussion about how the fuck they turn the image of the party round. The dc reform body is crucial to that, though it's not ideal that apparently all 11 (I think) places on it have gone to the loyalist faction.
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you really are an idiot if this is what you believe. they can't turn the image round because they've covered up various thoroughly disgusting shit and voted to accept it. twice.
they've also shown that the majority of the party can only get a small minority at conference. what a disgusting stitch up.

and you're still sticking up for these corrupt, manipulating and lying individuals? you clown.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Do they have major differences over dem cen and internal regime issues? Beyond the bad faith of Rees and German over their own previous practice, probably not.
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That's an interesting question, but more because Counterfire haven't really said anything about organisational questions so it's actually hard to know what they advocate.
 
discokermit said:
you really are an idiot if this is what you believe. they can't turn the image round because they've covered up various thoroughly disgusting shit and voted to accept it. twice.
they've also shown that the majority of the party can only get a small minority at conference. what a disgusting stitch up.

and you're still sticking up for these corrupt, manipulating and lying individuals? you clown.
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That's pretty much it. Nice knowing you bb. Bye.
 
butchersapron said:
You defend a cesspit of a party.
No, i was going to , but there is no point. You are a shithole.

Socialist - say yes.
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Look be honest you don't give a fuck about the folks who've stayed or the ones who've left. You think they're all shitholes. The ones who've left are only useful in your eyes in so far as they shit on their own previous ideas.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Look be honest you don't give a fuck about the folks who've stayed or the ones who've left. You think they're all shitholes. The ones who've left are only useful in your eyes in so far as they shit on their own previous ideas.
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You're right, i am not daft about these new boys but still, you are fucked.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
That's an interesting question, but more because Counterfire haven't really said anything about organisational questions so it's actually hard to know what they advocate.
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Yeah their constitution tells us very little on that score and they don't often discuss it. But in various FB chats over the last four months with SWP oppositionists I've seen them argue that they've broken with the 'mistaken' bureaucratic regime of the party. Some of that is way back on this thread somewhere but I haven't the energy to find it!
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Look be honest you don't give a fuck about the folks who've stayed or the ones who've left. You think they're all shitholes. The ones who've left are only useful in your eyes in so far as they shit on their own previous ideas.
Click to expand...
Already set up stuff to attract them (don't like the aim of angle)
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Yeah their constitution tells us very little on that score and they don't often discuss it. But in various FB chats over the last four months with SWP oppositionists I've seen them argue that they've broken with the 'mistaken' bureaucratic regime of the party. Some of that is way back on this thread somewhere but I haven't the energy to find it!
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Is the constitutions failing? Did it fail to COVER UP RAPES enough?
 
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