SWP expulsions and squabbles

[belboid]

It does look like the CPGB are setting Seymour up for expulsion by posting that.

but it will be his own fault for not having gone public in the first place!


I only just saw how the CPBG were havng to pay out a fairly hefty whack for not bothering to check their facts again, irt the Unite bloke. eejits

 

[Nigel Irritable]

As if that wasn't already guaranteed and reinforced by some of the loyalist motions and contributions. They were only one step off "Richard Seymour should be expelled".

They already have the intent, but the CPGB just handed them the knife. And they knew they were doing it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Perhaps they could at least have a chat with Caroline to see what she thinks?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they will be doing to be honest. Is it right that there's likely to be civil action taken? If so I've got a good idea what I think they ought to do.

 

[cesare]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they will be doing to be honest. Is it right that there's likely to be civil action taken? If so I've got a good idea what I think they ought to do.

First I've heard of it was today, so no idea about any other action, sorry.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Even if she doesn't, if it is in the public domain, concerning someone who is a well known member, something should be done, or it would look like you were acting (without wanting to sound racist) like the three wise monkeys

But what might that something be? How can you investigate if you can only get one side of the story? (Yes, I know her side is in the blog but he's going to respond to those claims and they'd need to see how she responded to his response if you get what I mean).

I'm not trying to make any excuses for inaction or anything else, I'm just trying to figure out what can be done.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

As if that wasn't already guaranteed and reinforced by some of the loyalist motions and contributions. They were only one step off "Richard Seymour should be expelled".

They were one step off he should be hung from a tree.

 

[SLK]

They were one step off he should be hung from a tree.

Whereas you have taken that step a while ago!

 

[bolshiebhoy]

There is a distinction between believing that political arguments should be made openly and snitching.

You'll have to pardon me if I don't count this breach of confidence higher than many, many others we've had on this thread

 

[Nigel Irritable]

You'll have to pardon me if I don't count this breach of confidence higher than many, many others we've had on this thread

Fair point.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Whereas you have taken that step a while ago!

Totally true, but a) I never liked his tone even when he had the prof's ear and b) I know that in one sense this is all bollox. We're talking about a group of people at each others throats who compared to the general populace are within a mere hairs breath of each other politically. And in that sense Owen Jones is right in that BBC piece, it is crazy, this trot hair splitting. But if us all hugging each other and agreeing to disagree made revolutions we'd be there by now cause most sane socialists first instinct is to agree with and support each other and THEN disagree.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Is this Seymour intentionally getting himself expelled? I may be straying into conspiraloon like thinking here, but bear with me.

He's going to be expelled and he knows it. The CC probably would like to do it over something unspectacular and procedural, like secret factionalism or something. He doesn't want that - he wants maximum martyrdom. So he gets something published by the weekly worker relating to a rape related anti-democratic stitch up safe in the knowledge that they'll have to expel him whether they want to or not because the loyalists will demand it. He looks like a hero, expelled for sticking to his principles (and, as he'll no doubt put it, his loyalty to the IS tradition). Maximum martyrdom achieved.

Maybe I'm just reading a little bit too much into it

 

[cesare]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they will be doing to be honest. Is it right that there's likely to be civil action taken? If so I've got a good idea what I think they ought to do.

In any event, the very least *immediate* response should be for someone senior in the SP to contact her to check she's (relatively) OK and see what support she needs.

 

[SpackleFrog]

In any event, the very least *immediate* response should be for someone senior in the SP to contact her to check she's (relatively) OK and see what support she needs.

That might well be a good idea. But she might well say "Fuck off, I don't want to speak to you, why should I?" And she'd have every right too.

 

[cesare]

That might well be a good idea. But she might well say "Fuck off, I don't want to speak to you, why should I?" And she'd have every right too.

Yep, of course. But better to be rebuffed than give the impression of not caring.

 

[emanymton]

Looks like I certain person I best not name who is a member of both the RMT and the SP has had their lawyer on the phone to Mr Newman, because someone happened to post a link to a certain blog post on SU

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Looks like I certain person I best not name who is a member of both the RMT and the SP has had their lawyer on the phone to Mr Newman, because someone happened to post a link to a certain blog post on SU

Not according to SU.

 

[emanymton]

Not according to SU.

yeah I should have know better than to take one post on SU as gospel.

 

[belboid]

Not according to SU.

wow, 'Let us look at all the facts' sure looks like an utter twat

 

[emanymton]

Has the document by Megan T and Mike G been leaked anywhere yet? I expect BB will be calling for there expulsion considering the following passage.

That means that while the faction will cease to exist – and on that we’re all agreed – the debate can and must continue, in the branches, the colleges, the day schools, the coffee shop discussions, the conversations after a sale or a demonstration; and it needs to continue in all our publications and meetings. There must be no separation between the theorists and the activists and, while we accept party discipline, we can’t accept the reimposition of control under threat of expulsion or sanctions or exclusion from this conference or that party event.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Where's that from? Certainly Mike's style, love it, especially when he speaks, it just all keeps flowing in waves that crash over your head, can't expel that man :-(

 

[emanymton]

From a document called After Sunday that has been emailed out to all members, just had it forwarded to me. I would imagine either SU or the CPGB will have it up in full by the end of the night.

 

[emanymton]

For some reason the email also came with the report from the democracy commission from a few years ago. There is a section on the internet which includes this.

Any access to secure Internet sites only works if you can trust everyone not to pass on access to others, or the documents they access.
For us, this is the largest problem with using new technology to improve access to the SWP’s internal debates.
There are a number of obvious ways in which a leak could happen:
A disaffected existing member with a grudge.
A new member who doesn’t un-derstand why we keep our debates to our-selves.
A split in the organisation that leads to one side opening the debate to the wider movement.
Someone deliberately entering the SWP to gain access to our documents and debate.
A deliberate hack by someone
hostile to the SWP.

Do you think they had anyone in particular in mind?

 

[SLK]

Has the document by Megan T and Mike G been leaked anywhere yet? I expect BB will be calling for there expulsion considering the following passage.

I was talking to a friend who is an ex-member on facebook the other night. I was shocked to find she's (a) still in touch with a few people in the SWP (b) the people she's in touch with are people I thought might be loyalists (which does them a disservice to be fair) - Megan T was one of them and (c) she's following the crisis on Urban 75 despite not being signed up here.

When I mentioned U75, (d) she thought I might be bolshiebhoy.

 

[belboid]

Megan was threatened with expulsion for her interest in a certain cultural magazine to be set up by a Mr A Wilson, iirr

 

[SLK]

I don't get the reference, probably because I'm thick.

 

[emanymton]

I was talking to a friend who is an ex-member on facebook the other night. I was shocked to find she's (a) still in touch with a few people in the SWP (b) the people she's in touch with are people I thought might be loyalists (which does them a disservice to be fair) - Megan T was one of them and (c) she's following the crisis on Urban 75 despite not being signed up here.

When I mentioned U75, she thought I might be bolshiebhoy.

Hi Lurker.

 

[emanymton]

I don't get the reference, probably because I'm thick.

Andy Wilson

 

[belboid]

I don't get the reference, probably because I'm thick.

Andy Wilson, expelled (in part) for trying to set up a magazine called The Assassin. Around thirty odd other members who had said they were interested in being involved were likewise threatened with expulsion. Apparently doing so would mean we would never have time for party work, and it was bound to be oppositional to the only existing left wing magazine that talked about culture - Socialist Review. Later, one of the then Disputes Cmte, a P Stack, said they wouldnt have given a toss if it wasn't Andy.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I was talking to a friend who is an ex-member on facebook the other night. I was shocked to find she's (a) still in touch with a few people in the SWP (b) the people she's in touch with are people I thought might be loyalists (which does them a disservice to be fair) - Megan T was one of them and (c) she's following the crisis on Urban 75 despite not being signed up here.

When I mentioned U75, (d) she thought I might be bolshiebhoy.

Hope you were suitably insulted

 

[emanymton]

Andy Wilson, expelled (in part) for trying to set up a magazine called The Assassin. Around thirty odd other members who had said they were interested in being involved were likewise threatened with expulsion. Apparently doing so would mean we would never have time for party work, and it was bound to be oppositional to the only existing left wing magazine that talked about culture - Socialist Review. Later, one of the then Disputes Cmte, a P Stack, said they wouldnt have given a toss if it wasn't Andy.

To be frank coming up with such a stupid name would have been grounds for expulsion in my book.