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SWP expulsions and squabbles

discokermit said:
i thought your username was panesar. that would have been the best entry into a thread ever. from now on, in my head, you are.
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No probs. But I have no intention of becoming a regular poster on this particular subject (the on topic part thereof), shall we say, because I've already put my neck on the line and am being discreet. Great-grandparents in the Communist Party in the '30s; history doesn't repeat itself but it does rhyme.
 
butchersapron said:
he should know not to cross picket lines now he has things pretty easy.
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Yes that was the point of my posting that. Lamacq knew what he was doing, iirc on 6 Music he actually covered Tom Robinson's show as well as doing his own :facepalm:.

Re Miners Strike. I can dig out the reference if I have a chance but it's from the first bit of the Last Party: Britpop, Blair and the demise of English rock.
 
How's this? can somebody do a version thats not crap lol

rockfortheworkersclock2.png
 
The undercurents sussx uni website - junior aufheben - used to have one. The main person was the daughter of the greek ambassador. Check this shit out. I may waffle, but it's there.
 
ayatollah said:
Sihhi was battling to grasp an earlier version of this "wisdom" from Butchersapron in post 5581. I sympathise with his difficulty, because Butchersapron's statement is such utter bollocks that it almost defies belief .

One doesn't have to be either a "Leninist" or a Trot to understand that the old statement "Without revolutionery theory there can be no revolutionery practice" contains a hard kernal of solid political truth. The capitalist state's mass media, entertainment and education systems, and indeed the traditional barroom "truisms" of everyday culture serve to seriously distort most people's everyday understandings and interpretations of daily life, the true nature of the problems people face, and the best solutions to these problems. (And this is true of any class-based social system - that is how small ruling classes mainly hold on to their privileges and class power). "Spontaneity" and "action" on its own is just as likely to lead to distinctly reactionery self-defeating actions by the oppressed in society if not connected to a radical, progressive, political belief system. In the case of capitalism, this action needs to be connected to specifically socialist values and long term aims. Without this progressive, socialist , framework , people wanting to fight against problems like housing shortages are just as likely to see local ethnic minorities as the cause of their housing problems than grasp that the housing shortages being caused by the operations of the capitalist system. People worried about high unemployment levels - the capitalist ideology fed day in day out by the popular press is more likely to lead many people to focus on the jobs supposedly "stolen" by minority communities, than on the higher level operations of the capitalist system. And so it goes on in every case of social problems and people's understanding of the real underlying basis of those problems.

Butchersapron, not just here, but elsewhere on these threads, when he actually gives us a glimpse of his reactionery spontaneist politics, seems to believe that the undifferentiated "working class" has a mysterious spontaneous "wisdom of crowds" understanding of its real interests - so left alone from the malignant influence of the "middle class left" it will, through action alone, "find the true path" forward to some sort of "working class solution" ("working class power in working class areas" perhaps ? a la that simplistic key IWCA slogan - it's so simplistic it's positively laughable !). This is of course dangerous drivel, as the key oppressed class under capitalism, deeply imbued with a huge weight of capitalist ideology, the "spontaneous" expression of the non socialist influenced working class community is just as likely to be profoundly reactionary, as progressive. What Butchers is actually extolling is usually called crass "workerism" , the "tailing" of the "spontaneous" (but hugely capitalist ideology-influenced) instincts of the undifferentiated crowd , by an opportunist political party seeking only to "ride that wave" in whatever direction it goes. The Trot/Leninist tradition is profoundly compromised and disfunctional , true, but 200 years of socialist theory and practice has given us a priceless store of working class-based knowledge and experience (yep, WORKING CLASS knowledge and experience) as to how to combat and overcome capitalism. Socialist political militants need collectively to seek to build a more open, less rigidly dogmatic, mass socialist movement. We don't need to go down any of the empty , "action without thought or theory" routes hinted at by Butchers and his coterie of chums on here. That route leads in the end to gross opportunism and reaction.
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This is, no messing about, bonkers bruno.
 
redcogs said:
i have an idea that the former NUM employee (Brian Parkin) passed away, quite some time ago.

It may be that another Brian Parkin (who is a current SWP member) has signed up. Only mentioning it because the extant Parkin may not deserve any disrespect for turn-coatism.
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Really? Saw him around two years ago at a meeting and he was alive and well then. I was surprised to see him there as a member of the SWP. Tried to re-recruit me and I blanked him.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
If and when they get the concessions they want and a recognition that it was all handled too administratively they will row in politically against the seymourites. I'm convinced of that cause of the things some of the faction (not the platform ) say in private. They are embarrassed by the anti IS trend of Seymour but won't say it public ally while they're both fighting the handling of this case.
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From the "Platform" point of view, the "soft" opposition are useful tactically: That particular list of old lags and third tier leaders will be able to speak to and reassure the middle cadre in a way that the students and bloggers simply can't. They also provide a partial shield against expulsion.

But associations carries risks. They are older and more experienced than the Platform membership, and have their own agenda (moderation of the rebellion), which they will try to push. They are also reasonably likely to stab the Platform in the back if the CC partially backs down and offers a deal.

The game for the CC remains the same, even though this represents a weakening of their position: Try to hive off the "hard" opposition from the "soft", divide and conquer.
 
It will be interesting to see how much the faction and the platform grow by over the next few days. There are now 81 Platform signatories for instance.
 
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