barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Just remembered this
http://stalinsdiary.wordpress.com/
http://stalinsdiary.wordpress.com/
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
bristol, sometime saturday night...
I hate that T shirt but I love Fidel's trackie top. I'm conflicted.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Well in fairness trots have been doing that since the democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry 'mistake' we corrected for Lenin.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
how is organising the Firebox workers going?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Is that link broken? Mind you doesn't sound worth fixing
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This is pretty much how I see it.Perhaps something in the irrelevant world of students and internet blogs but that is about it
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I suspect that most left wing trade unionists who know or care about the SWP's dispute will be negatively disposed towards the leadership's handling of the row, but that will only be a tiny number of people in the first place. And even the most outraged will have more sense than to bring it up at some union branch meeting so as to have a pop at some SWP trade unionist.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Yup. This is the start of something big
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Mention on facebook of "London SWSS" doing something oppositional earlier. Very vague as to what it was.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Poor bolshie, you do so much want to believe that all the SWPers disgusted at a rape cover up are just bad trots using it as an excuse.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
No I completely understand the indignation on the assumption you buy the coverup hypothesis. But how people explain what's happened to their party after that initial reaction also interests me. Some see it as a mistake that the cc are too thick headed to correct. Some see it as a symptom of a degenerated model of dem cen. Some blame the alleged macho sexism inherent in the left. And some throw the whole baby out with the bath water and blame Leninism per se. The moral indignation matters, course it does. But the broader political explanation people latch on to matters too. And five or ten years from now it's that explanation which will determine what sort of politics people will end up practising, in,or out of the party they feel has let them down.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Looks like the Page has been taken down, I found the link on SU (which should tell you something) and the link there is not working either.Is that link broken? Mind you doesn't sound worth fixing
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Petitioning outside the centre? Invaded a CC meeting waving flags around?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I wouldn't discount the latter at all but I think the notion of the SWP becoming toxic through this is somewhat overrated.It will be used as a stick every now and again by those in the union bureaucracy to beat them with but I think the SWP will produce a consistent line which will be that they investigated the complaint, the complainant did not want the police involved , that the committee that investigated the compliant had people from appropriate victim centred backgrounds and that they did not find the case proven.The party takes allegations like these seriously and is committed to fighting sexism in all its aspects.
The only thing that would blow this off course would be if the victim left the SWP because of this and went public.
The democratic centralism/real meaning of lennism debate is to be honest irrelevant to the wider rank and file of TUs.
Btw I came across an Afed case in Sheffield of sexual harassment in which the case was also not referred to the Police for investigation,
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I tend to be on the side of mistake and a thick headed CC rather than a cover up. I don't have time for a long post, maybe tonight, but I have always said the roots of the crises are political.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This is what I came across. I don't know anything else about it and I am not suggesting any similarities except for the fact that for what ever reason they chose to ignore the bourgeois legal system ( which I have nothing against in principle providing all parties agree)
http://www.afed.org.uk/blog/society...he-disassociation-of-sam-sheffield-group.html
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Where does it say anything about choosing to ignore the bourgeois legal system?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Quite obvious that they decided to take their own action and not go down that route.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
No, it's not. A statement of their own action so far, together with setting out what "Sam" has to do next as a first step - doesn't imply or infer that this is all that has or will happen.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Sam wouldn't be doing any such thing if the case was going to court!
Anyway you read it the way you want to.The only thing that will settle it is if we get someone from Afed on here to say what happened.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I agree that Sam wouldn't be doing any such thing if the case was going to court. However you can't infer from that, that the parties chose not to involve the police. They may not have done - but you don't know.
So I don't know why you're providing this as an example of "an Afed case in Sheffield of sexual harassment in which the case was also not referred to the Police for investigation".
Edit: if what you are trying to get to, is that anarchist organisations preclude reporting to the police in how they deal with things; and from that draw some comparison with how the SWP dealt with this rape complaint ... Why don't you just ask AFED/ the SOLFED for details on how they go about dealing with sexual misconduct complaints?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Quite clear to me that the inference is that they didn't although I do agree with you that the statement isn't as transparent as it should be. Are you around Solfed/Afed? perhaps you could use your contacts to find out?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I didn't say the statement isn't as transparent as it should be, so there's no need to agree with what I didn't say.
I have no dealings with AFED but sometimes I'm "around" people from the SOLFED. I'm happy to email the SOLFED to see if they want to answer any queries; particularly I suppose in comparison to how the SWP have dealt with this rape complaint as that's the context you've raised it in.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The inference is quite clear but my conclusion is that despite the ready availability of af and sf contact details you haven't contacted them to enquire into their handling of the situations you've identified. If you are as concerned as you affect to be this is something of a surprise.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
if you could please. I am particularly interested in organisations who have ( for what ever reason) have not chosen to use the bourgeois justice system but have dealt with these things internally.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not concerned Pickmans, interested. The left and the anarchist scene can't be immune to this sort of behaviour but I am interested in how they are dealt with.
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