SWP expulsions and squabbles

[butchersapron]

An occasional poster here with very good SWP contacts mentioned it on leftist train spotters.

It that still going, good lord! Wonder if my membership has lapsed.

 

[butchersapron]

She wouldn't have known this at the time. It's like being asked "will you say you're against racism" and then finding out your name's been added to something which Rose West and Ian Huntley have signed.

It's the UAF - that sort of thing is written into it, what the frig did she expect, Lenin's signature or something? How naive.

 

[sihhi]

This an FYI post to anyone new reading all this - the SWP-Gilad Atzmon embrace in 2005:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050728090819/http://www.swp.org.uk/gilad.php

'Gilad Atzmon and Marxism 2005

There has been some controversy surrounding our invitation for the musician Gilad Atzmon to perform at Marxism 2005. One or two small groups are claiming that Gilad is an anti-Semite and Holocaust denier. We would like to state the following:

Gilad Atzmon is an Israeli born Jew who served in the Israeli Defence Force and who now lives in “self-exile” in Britain. He is an internationally acclaimed jazz musician whose album Exile won BBC Best Jazz Album of 2003.
The SWP would also like to make it clear, that we would never give a platform to a racist or fascist. ... We have a record of opposing fascism, anti-Semitism and all forms of racism, that is second to none. The SWP does not believe that Gilad Atzmon is a Holocaust denier or racist. However, while defending Gilad’s right to play and speak on public platforms that in no way means we endorse all of Gilad’s views. We think that some of the formulations on his website might encourage his readers to feel that he is blurring the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti Zionism. In fact we have publicly challenged and argued against those of his ideas we disagree with.
We do not believe that Gilad should be “banned” from performing or speaking. “No Platform” is a principle that the left has always reserved for fascists and organised racists. Where other disagreements occur, the left, with the same vigour, has defended the right to freedom of speech, debate and the clash of ideas.'

 

[Plumdaff]

It wouldn't take very much to fund the SPGB's activity levels. I'd believe you if you told me that they were funded from one small boy's pocket money.

Daniel Lambert of the SPGB has stood in every election in Lambeth I can remember. And given the same hustings speech . And they've got that shop on Clapham High St which I've never seen anyone in. Maybe it's a great success with the modern Claphamite and that's what funds the deposit money.

 

[butchersapron]

And the thing is, leading members had denounced him for his anti-semtism at least as far back as 2004. Looks to me like Smith pushed this through.

 

[ViolentPanda]

you know you goaded him into talking. now he's talking.

you know, you've let the board down, you've let the posters down, you've let the lurkers down.

but worst of all, and deep down in your hearts you know this, you've let yourselves down.

Nah, worst of all is that I let your mum down!

 

[co-op]

Daniel Lambert of the SPGB has stood in every election in Lambeth I can remember. And given the same hustings speech . And they've got that shop on Clapham High St which I've never seen anyone in. Maybe it's a great success with the modern Claphamite and that's what funds the deposit money.

I've been in there! Saw a jolly pleasant film and had a jolly nice cup of tea and a biscuit afterwards. No one even mentioned the word "socialism". It was all very pleasant. Bit like visiting the vicar. Although I've never done that so I wouldn't know.

 

[ayatollah]

As suggested by others the most likely short term scenario looks like the " mini mother of all purges" in the SWP (as great as a wee purge can be in a groupescule of a "party" with no access to the late night deep forest death pits). So, the old vain, self serving, bureaucratic chums on the Central Comittee and their full timer hacks will likely survive a bit longer as "leaders" of a grouplet which thinks its a Party - with a largely transient student-based membership leaving in droves - and from now on NOT being topped up again by a new inflow of bright-eyed , subs paying and paper selling young Leftie students at Freshers week. The SWP finances must be severely depleted by now. This is the same prolonged death dive which saw the WRP sidling along to Gaddafi all those years ago for a large regular bung to keep the crazed ego roadshow of Vannessa and Corin on the road for a few more years ! ( and deja vu-wise a significant mid-point marker of the WRP's final-stage decline from mere sectarian hyper cultishness to complete bonkerdom and collapse was also the flood of revelations of sexual impropriety by the CC with gullible young members). All a sad contrast with the highpoint of the SWP, as the IS, in 1974, with about the same overall membership (maybe less), but about 40 real factory-based branches , and the Rank & File Movement with genuine mobilising clout in the organised working class. Yep, it's all over, "it's a very dead parrot" - it's just in the final ,undead, walking but zombified, stage that political organisations completely caught out by major shifts in the political landscape often go through -- the BNP and its recent thunderous collapse actually being the most recent political example of exactly the same problem and process.

The Blogosphere is currently full of discussion stuff about the implosion of the SWP, with some really good analysis sprinkled amongst the jargon-heavy garbage, and some good stuff too even on the SWP Oppositionist's "International Socialism" site. The endless ideological handwringing about "Democratic Centralism" etc, etc, though, strikes me as important but missing a much more basic point, ie, for the last 30 years or so the SWP has been spouting revolutionery rhetoric in what has been for revolutionery socialists, a complete, neoliberal hegemonic political vacuum. For every "revolutionery" group on the left all the pontificating and posturing has been not only largely irrelevant to anything that has transpired in UK public life, but for supposed "revolutioneries" it has been personally risk free too. So what sort of people have stayed long term in the SWP for this huge period of fruitless project hatching ? Well, Red Action's now famous description of Alex Calinicos's craven behaviour at Chapel Market in Btf tells you all you need to know about the physical cowardice, but huge self regard, and limitless ego of one key human component of the sterile old-bureaucratic comrades club that has been the leadership of the SWP all that time. The point is, this wasn't down to "Democratic Centralism" or a "faulty Programme", or Socialism itself -- it could have been no other way --- only the natural bureaucrat, the person fascinated with endless infighting, endless meetings, endless applause (and sometimes sexual services) from naive young recruits, and endless polical rhetoric, (and the academic seamlessly combining this "revolutionery" theoretical pontificating with their academic paper output and careers),could have been attracted to "revolutionery" politics during this era. Likewise the general membership - in the main only the anorak "political nerd" could have stuck it out as a very long term member - the trades union militant, the activist wanting to get stuck into capitalism ? Not much role for "revolutionery" as opposed to more basic activism in society at large - so no real "combining the class fighters as the fist of the class" role for any Trot or other grouplet for a long time.

We are now in a completely new era of UK and world politics, since the 2008 Crash. Political activism at a higher level than at any time since the early 1970's is simply going to be forced on masses of people as the crisis deepens. This crisis simply WILL generate new radical parties on the Left AND Right - and eventually masses of new party members previously entirely untouched by militant political activism, and it is hardly surprising that the new tests facing the old established radical parties of Left and Right have found their leaderships and structures seriously wanting. A bit early to start writing off the need to build a mass revolutionery Socialist party with a genuinely democratic but reasonably disciplined co-ordinating structures though , just because the zombified carcase of one of the originally most innovative and dynamic of the revolutionery grouplets has finally entered its last , and no doubt still prolonged , death spasms.

 

[sihhi]

And the thing is, leading members had denounced him for his anti-semtism at least as far back as 2004. Looks to me like Smith pushed this through.

Good spot.

Atzmon was a platform speaker in Marxism 2004

http://deadmenleft.blogspot.co.uk/2004/07/kamm-swp-obsession.html

His incoherent statements about politics were by all accounts dire. Meetings at Marxism are generally taped, so I invite Kamm to listen to the contributions to his meeting and hear Atzmon clearly criticised by SWP member after SWP member - prominent members, too, like John Rose. Once more, an explicit attack by the SWP on a particular view is ignored. Personally, I think it was a mistake to invite Atzmon to speak, simple as that, but I am glad that once there he was given a rough ride. As to the SW interview: Atzmon has conducted many others, on similar lines, many of which also note in passing his website - or are we to also condemn Jazzdimensions, Jazz CDs and Jazz Views as "antisemitic" or "left-wing fascists"?

This post about the SWP continuing to invite Atzmon as a jazz performer in 2005-2007 from the comments to an AWL piece:

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2008/12/17/will-martin-smith-be-swps-gorbachev#comment-17656

Smith has written - a bad book on John Coltrane. He was also, of course, the main advocate of consistently inviting anti-Semitic nutter saxophonist Gilad Atzmon to play at SWP events.

suggests the principle of 'live jazz matters, young women comrades and antisemitism/cultural feelings of Jewish people don't'

 

[chilango]

One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned much, but is utterly crucial to what happens next is the "social life" aspect of all of this.

For anyone who's been in an activist group for any length of time there's a real danger that your social circle becomes indistinguishable from your political one and that your social life revolves around activist stuff.

To leave this, to leave your friends, to give up a very time consuming "hobby" is a big leap without anything to replace it. Hence in the past people "party hopping". (We have plenty of culprits of this on here I'd imagine, myself included) or switching to another form of activism.

But to leave the SWPs now, where else is there to go! The other Trots have vanished, with the exception of the SP who years of SWPie propaganda have put beyond the pale? The anarchist and direct action scenes are notably quiet at the moment. If you live in London and have designs on being some kinda leftie hipster there's Counterfire and firebox etc. but for average SWPie in the sticks there is nowhere to go.

 

[cesare]

Why do you say that the anarchist and direct action scenes are notably quiet at the moment? I'd have said they were quite busy.

 

[Random]

To leave this, to leave your friends, to give up a very time consuming "hobby" is a big leap without anything to replace it. Hence in the past people "party hopping". (We have plenty of culprits of this on here I'd imagine, myself included) or switching to another form of activism.

Yes, I've been having withdrawal symptoms since I moved to Sweden and lost all my activist friends. I'm about ready to join the church.

 

[chilango]

Why do you say that the anarchist and direct action scenes are notably quiet at the moment? I'd have said they were quite busy.

Just an impression.

I don't "see" any sign of them about.

I'm sure they're all still active, just not as visible.

 

[chilango]

Yes, I've been having withdrawal symptoms since I moved to Sweden and lost all my activist friends. I'm about ready to join the church.

Yeah. It's a few years now since I was in any activist scene, and I still miss the "in-group" feeling.

 

[sihhi]

But to leave the SWPs now, where else is there to go! The other Trots have vanished, with the exception of the SP who years of SWPie propaganda have put beyond the pale? The anarchist and direct action scenes are notably quiet at the moment. If you live in London and have designs on being some kinda leftie hipster there's Counterfire and firebox etc. but for average SWPie in the sticks there is nowhere to go.

The average SWPer is a young university student even "in the sticks" ( at the phrase).

Are you saying they are somehow less likely to endorse the democratic opposition motion for recall because they are afraid of losing friends?

 

[chilango]

The average SWPer is a young university student even "in the sticks" confused: at the phrase).

Are you saying they are somehow less likely to endorse the democratic opposition motion for recall because they are afraid of losing friends?

Yes.

It only takes a couple of terms at Uni to completely switch social scenes.

I'm not even sure if the SWP is as dominated by current students these days. More ex-students I'd guess as their campus recruitment ain't as hot as it used to be.

 

[chilango]

The average SWPer is a young university student even "in the sticks" ( at the phrase).

Are you saying they are somehow less likely to endorse the democratic opposition motion for recall because they are afraid of losing friends?

By "the sticks" I mean in a small city/large town where the SWPs are the only game in town for a wannabe radical.

 

[sihhi]

By "the sticks" I mean in a small city/large town where the SWPs are the only game in town for a wannabe radical.

There's no anti-cuts groups in small cities?

 

[butchersapron]

By "the sticks" I mean in a small city/large town where the SWPs are the only game in town for a wannabe radical.

From my experience, the sticks is exactly where there are no swpies, there are more likely to be broad-based 'alternative scenes' and work/union based networks.

 

[chilango]

There's no anti-cuts groups in small cities?

I'm not sure an anti-cuts group fills that void of belonging/social scene/constant activity that other groups do.

 

[cesare]

Just an impression.

I don't "see" any sign of them about.

I'm sure they're all still active, just not as visible.

They don't all mask up.

 

[chilango]

From my experience, the sticks is exactly where there are no swpies, there are more likely to be broad-based 'alternative scenes' and work/union based networks.

Maybe. I still think that these do not offer the "social package" of the more tight nit groups and scenes.


...which is a good thing.

...for everyone except potential sWP refugees.

...and even for them in the long run.

 

[chilango]

They don't all mask up.

...or stick posters/stickers/graffiti up. Or do street stalls etc. etc.

This isn't a criticism by the way.

Just an observation that at the moment, in many places, these groups are a lot less visible than they have been at points in the past.

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe. I still think that these do not offer the "social package" of the more tight nit groups and scenes.


...which is a good thing.

...for everyone except potential sWP refugees.

...and even for them in the long run.

Then they must become their own scene!

 

[chilango]

Fwiw. I don't think the tight-nit social scene I'm talking about is a good thing.

 

[frogwoman]

Fwiw. I don't think the tight-nit social scene I'm talking about is a good thing.

It happens though. I think your social scene point is a very good one and one that's not often talked about.

 

[cesare]

...or stick posters/stickers/graffiti up. Or do street stalls etc. etc.

This isn't a criticism by the way.

Just an observation that at the moment, in many places, these groups are a lot less visible than they have been at points in the past.

I'm not bothered if you *are* criticising, no worries. But your perception of visibility and mine don't match.

 

[chilango]

Just as much a bubble as Laura's.

 

[cesare]

Just as much a bubble as Laura's.

Who? What?

 

[mk12]

One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned much, but is utterly crucial to what happens next is the "social life" aspect of all of this.

For anyone who's been in an activist group for any length of time there's a real danger that your social circle becomes indistinguishable from your political one and that your social life revolves around activist stuff.

To leave this, to leave your friends, to give up a very time consuming "hobby" is a big leap without anything to replace it. Hence in the past people "party hopping". (We have plenty of culprits of this on here I'd imagine, myself included) or switching to another form of activism.

But to leave the SWPs now, where else is there to go! The other Trots have vanished, with the exception of the SP who years of SWPie propaganda have put beyond the pale? The anarchist and direct action scenes are notably quiet at the moment. If you live in London and have designs on being some kinda leftie hipster there's Counterfire and firebox etc. but for average SWPie in the sticks there is nowhere to go.

Inactivity or the Labour Party I imagine.