Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

SWP expulsions and squabbles

SpineyNorman said:
See above. The SWP didn't exactly cover themselves in glory over that one either did they? Getting the competition out of the way of Respect?
Click to expand...
Didn't they?

I understood and respected the position the SP had in the Socialist Alliance, however I genuinely believed they were wrong. I believed at the time, and still believe what the SWP did in the Socialist Alliance was win the vote for A reasonable strategy for the movement.

In fact, At no point was I ever motivated by "Machiavellian power grabbing type stuff". If you were in pursuit of power grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance, it would make about as much sense as a bald man grabbing control of a comb.

So now, either I am lying, or is it possible to look at the events from a different perspective? Is it possible I wasn't motivated by grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance?
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
Didn't they?

I understood and respected the position the SP had in the Socialist Alliance, however I genuinely believed they were wrong. I believed at the time, and still believe what the SWP did in the Socialist Alliance was win the vote for A reasonable strategy for the movement.

In fact, At no point was I ever motivated by "Machiavellian power grabbing type stuff". If you were in pursuit of power grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance, it would make about as much sense as a bald man grabbing control of a comb.

So now, either I am lying, or is it possible to look at the events from a different perspective? Is it possible I wasn't motivated by grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance?
Click to expand...

Were you directing SWP policy re. the SA? If not why are blethering on about your motivations?

Louis MacNeice
 
Random said:
It's not hard to find examples of Leninist parties claiming to be the best, the cleverest, the exceptional, the irreplaceable organisation. And that their work is the best, the most important, etc. it's this kind of belif that keeps them going.

A quick google gets me these quotes from SWP 2012 conference:

"This has been a year in which we, quicker than anyone else, grasped the idea that there was a shift towards the centrality of the organised working class in the resistance against the austerity drive of the coalition."
“Building the party is also about shaping the movement. Whether we recruit someone to the SWP makes a difference to how the struggle builds."

Sure this is softer stuff than the 1944 quote, but it's basically the same belief.
Click to expand...

thats not exactly confined to the leninist left tho tbf.
 
frogwoman said:
the iwca, anarchists, everyone on the left does it.
Click to expand...
I've already said that I think this kind of in-group cultishness is a widespread thing among radical groupings. But the Leninists make it into a virtue; it's the central plank of how their parties are organised, that they are irreplaceable, that they need to grow and increase their influence, because only they have the right analysis. In all my years in anarchist groups, or in the IWCA, I've never heard anyone say "Whether we recruit someone to [our group] makes a difference to how the struggle builds." It's a kind of organisational self-importance. Institutional sectarianism.
 
Nobody other than an idiot would ever say the things in butchers quote about monopoly. But in private it's a common enough sentiment among cliffites. Other socialists fall into two categories, those yet to be won to The Truth and those rigidly opposed to it (which usually means other marxists and revolutionaries) The former are to be worked with, the latter crushed where possible and in a way that doesn't pee off the former excessively. Pretty much the fulltimers outlook on life and one I shared when a member.
 
frogwoman said:
thats not exactly confined to the leninist left tho tbf.
Click to expand...

There would be a difference between trying to convince others of an approach to indentifying, understanding and getting to grips with problems that face working class people and trying to recruit people to the organisation which is best placed to play a leading role in indentifying, understanding and getting to grips with those problems.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
Didn't they?

I understood and respected the position the SP had in the Socialist Alliance, however I genuinely believed they were wrong. I believed at the time, and still believe what the SWP did in the Socialist Alliance was win the vote for A reasonable strategy for the movement.

In fact, At no point was I ever motivated by "Machiavellian power grabbing type stuff". If you were in pursuit of power grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance, it would make about as much sense as a bald man grabbing control of a comb.

So now, either I am lying, or is it possible to look at the events from a different perspective? Is it possible I wasn't motivated by grabbing control of the Socialist Alliance?
Click to expand...

What on earth are you talking about now? Who said you were motivated by anything other than slavish devotion to the SWP? Regardless of mistakes made by the SP, I think the only sensible interpretation of the actions of the SWP towards the end was that they wanted to get the SA out of the way of Respect. That's it - I'm sure you, like many members, didn't think that was what you were doing. It was though.
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
Because my motivations were the strategy clearly stated in party literature. Have you read and understood that strategy?
Click to expand...

Now it really isn't clear if you're being thick or dishonest; perhaps you can't tell anymore in much the same way that you apparently can't concieve of the SWP leadership having both stated and unstated (maybe even unrecognised and therefore unacknowledged) motivations.

Louis MacNeice
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
that's because you view everything an SWP member does through the lens of "Machiavellian power grabbing type stuff". Therefore it doesn't compute, when I say what I genuinely believe.
Click to expand...

No I don't - I view much of what the CC do in that way - but that doesn't mean they don't also have a genuine commitment to their stated politics.

You're a fool, and dennis is right - you're just here to derail and disrupt. Fuck off.
 
Louis MacNeice said:
Now it really isn't clear if you're being thick or dishonest; perhaps you can't tell anymore in much the same way that you apparently can't concieve of the SWP leadership having both stated and unstated (maybe even unrecognised and therefore unacknowledged) motivations.

Louis MacNeice
Click to expand...
and their stated aim was Mr expert on everything?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ElizabethofYork
Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency
34 35 36 37 38
Replies
1K
Views
44K
The39thStep
The39thStep
Smokeandsteam
Facebook: Australia content ban, SWP removal and related news
2 3 4
Replies
115
Views
8K
NoXion
NoXion
S
Tory songs and bands
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
210
Views
10K
Wilf
Wilf
W
all these “So and so’s time is up” threads.
2 3
Replies
89
Views
4K
wow
W
J
To save the UK economy this is what Sunak and Hunt should be doing
Replies
18
Views
1K
bimble
bimble
Back
Top Bottom