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Split within the IWW?

BigTom said:
Well I'd been hopeful that IWW would actually grow towards a proper union, and that the Cleaners branch would be the start of real action and wins for our members in more than just representation. With the public sector unions being so lame, there's the chance for a more militant union, but getting enough members in any government body to force recognition would be difficult.
Nonetheless I was pleased to hear onket had joined because Unison were shit, and would love to have seen/heard of more of that happening. This split is only going to be bad :(
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No there's absolutely no chance of building a more militant union at the moment.
 
BigTom said:
and also IWW do represent people, and this week I did my first thing as a rep and kept someone 8 days holiday that HR tried to say he should be using instead of occupational sick pay. That's not a discussion and social club.

:) cos I think this post might sound angry if I don't specify that it isn't
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Brilliant well done.:cool:

Maybe something useful will happen in isolated areas and that in itself is worth doing.

However what you describe above (and I'm not detracting from it at all - because it's a really tough thing to achieve) is something tens of thousands of trade unionists in mainstream unions do every day.
 
BigTom said:
and also IWW do represent people, and this week I did my first thing as a rep and kept someone 8 days holiday that HR tried to say he should be using instead of occupational sick pay. That's not a discussion and social club.

:) cos I think this post might sound angry if I don't specify that it isn't
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Keep at it! Unions are as good as their members and front line reps.
 
Spanky Longhorn said:
Brilliant well done.:cool:

Maybe something useful will happen in isolated areas and that in itself is worth doing.

However what you describe above (and I'm not detracting from it at all - because it's a really tough thing to achieve) is something tens of thousands of trade unionists in mainstream unions do every day.
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Yep, it's something that makes a union a union, and not just a talking shop.

I live in a state of enforced optimism with politics, if I didn't I'd be agreeing with lletsa everywhere and that is not good for my depression, so although I think you're right about there being no chance of building a more militant union, I've got to live with the hope and anything that I see moving against that isn't a good thing. I see more opportunity of taking IWW and building it into something bigger, than of trying to make unison/unite/etc more militant.
 
BigTom said:
Well I'd been hopeful that IWW would actually grow towards a proper union, and that the Cleaners branch would be the start of real action and wins for our members in more than just representation. With the public sector unions being so lame, there's the chance for a more militant union, but getting enough members in any government body to force recognition would be difficult.
Nonetheless I was pleased to hear onket had joined because Unison were shit, and would love to have seen/heard of more of that happening. This split is only going to be bad :(
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Yep. Exactly.

Someone else here has joined the IWW at the same time as me, and we were going to see if we could recruit a few more and do a bit of workplace organising off the back of the terribly handled Unison pensions situation.

But this isn't a good start.
 
BigTom said:
Yep, it's something that makes a union a union, and not just a talking shop.

I live in a state of enforced optimism with politics, if I didn't I'd be agreeing with lletsa everywhere and that is not good for my depression, so although I think you're right about there being no chance of building a more militant union, I've got to live with the hope and anything that I see moving against that isn't a good thing. I see more opportunity of taking IWW and building it into something bigger, than of trying to make unison/unite/etc more militant.
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Seriously good luck with it, I think that dozens of workers across the country probably agree with you.
 
Onket said:
Yep. Exactly.

Someone else here has joined the IWW at the same time as me, and we were going to see if we could recruit a few more and do a bit of workplace organising off the back of the terribly handled Unison pensions situation.

But this isn't a good start.
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I don't know anything of the London branch - hopefully there is still a good organisation there which will mean you can get the support you want and this won't turn out to be an issue.. but it's not going to help.
I hope you continue anyway, and do organise - if nothing else it might make your local unison/unite/gmb organisers think that they might need to be more militant to keep their members.
 
Onket said:
Yep. Exactly.

Someone else here has joined the IWW at the same time as me, and we were going to see if we could recruit a few more and do a bit of workplace organising off the back of the terribly handled Unison pensions situation.

But this isn't a good start.
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Never rely on union bosses :D

Nothing to stop you doing exactly what you were hoping to do, and I bet you'd get plenty of support here from people used to workplace organisation.
 
cesare said:
A nation of closed shop keepers ...
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Boom!
Felix_the_Bomb_Cat_by_Flakbadger.jpg
 
i was in iww for a few years a while back and got lots of help with problems at work. i ended up dealing with iww because Unison is so full of shit at my workplace (a council). full timers and their wannabes who just like to stay in their cosy little world, unlike the rest of us actual workers. we're just the mugs who pay the subs. we're just a nuisance to them, with our pathetic grievances and petty disciplinaries...don't we know the full-timers have some important meetings to attend? cunts.
 
krink said:
i was in iww for a few years a while back and got lots of help with problems at work. i ended up dealing with iww because Unison is so full of shit at my workplace (a council). full timers and their wannabes who just like to stay in their cosy little world, unlike the rest of us actual workers. we're just the mugs who pay the subs. we're just a nuisance to them, with our pathetic grievances and petty disciplinaries...don't we know the full-timers have some important meetings to attend? cunts.
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And why aren't you still a member of the IWW?
 
I think the the button has done a good job filling in the various bits and pieces, but I think a large part of the backstory is the reformist trajectory laid down by L&S while they were at the helm of the IWW and how this has basically allowed groups like the AWL and people like Ford to become associated with the IWW.

I have a few issues with the IWW, but at least it was genuine to the idea of self-organisation, Ford and co. are parasites whose logical trajectory is to become fully fledged union bureaucrats. It's on that basis that the anti-red and black flag nonsense on the picket line makes sense, because they are doing what all trot and leninists do and look simply to take over structures and move them along the well worn path. It would just seem that the IWW was not in a position to repel this, owing to a number of things.
 
That was very much my reaction when I heard a bit more, O_L, but the main issue (as far as I see it) is that the members weren't consulted first.

That said, it might work out OK for them in the long run. A virtual fiver says that the new org will be independent for nanoseconds before being swallowed up into the RMT. The cleaners will have a choice between RMT backing or rejoin the IWW (or both, if they dual card) and CF prob gets a FT paid RMT position.

It'll be interesting to see how JL/Compass react :D
 
Always had the impression that compared to proper trade unions that the IWW were some sort of Fair Trade version
 
cesare said:
That was very much my reaction when I heard a bit more, O_L, but the main issue (as far as I see it) is that the members weren't consulted first.

That said, it might work out OK for them in the long run. A virtual fiver says that the new org will be independent for nanoseconds before being swallowed up into the RMT. The cleaners will have a choice between RMT backing or rejoin the IWW (or both, if they dual card) and CF prob gets a FT paid RMT position.

It'll be interesting to see how JL/Compass react :D
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OK. Naive questions - dual carding - how does this work? I'm a PCS member - can I also be a member of the IWW? I see no conflict for me but any idea how the PCS would see it?
 
HST said:
OK. Naive questions - dual carding - how does this work? I'm a PCS member - can I also be a member of the IWW? I see no conflict for me but any idea how the PCS would see it?
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I don't know how the PCS would view it, but afaik they can't unjustifiably discipline you for joining another union e.g. the IWW (TULCRA s64/65). There's obv 2 lots of membership dues to pay though.
 
Spanky Longhorn said:
Who? What?
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John Lewis/Compass. They've agreed to 10% pay increase etc for the cleaners, but they did that on the basis of an agreement with the IWW who are a "proper" trade union in the sense of having basic certification. That agreement had nothing to do with the new organisation (not yet certificated), so there's a chance that JL/Compass will try and wriggle out of it.
 
cesare said:
John Lewis/Compass. They've agreed to 10% pay increase etc for the cleaners, but they did that on the basis of an agreement with the IWW who are a "proper" trade union in the sense of having basic certification. That agreement had nothing to do with the new organisation (not yet certificated), so there's a chance that JL/Compass will try and wriggle out of it.
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I had a brainstorm thought you were on about the centre-left pressure group:oops:
 
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