Should Tulse Hill in south London - named after a 17th century slave trader - change its name?

[YouSir]

Perhaps we should rename London? - previously known as Londinium. The Romans conquered lands far and wide.
For almost 1,500 years, the Roman Empire romped all over the political and military landscape of Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East.
If we go down the road of removing statues, changing place names ... where will it all end? Anything that someone, somewhere dislikes could be next!

There was a settlement called Lund before that, arguably a better name anyway. Feel free to point out those parts of the world still effected by a structural bias towards Rome, or the Celts getting excessively harassed by the police with Caesar's face on their helmets though.

Anyway, this is a nonsense argument. Over the last 30 odd years London has seen repeated waves of gentrification, whole communities being purged because it's more profitable for them to be elsewhere and services run down to nothing because a load of people reliant on them were viewed as non-profitable for those looking to invest. If you think the odd name change is the most egregious attack on London's fine history and culture then you've not been paying attention at all.

 

[eatmorecheese]

The lives of their ancestors may have been affected adversely. How many years/centuries ago are we talking? Are we going to live in a world digging up the past and continuously apologising for the actions of previous generations?! The only 'apologies' should be for the recent past e.g. .... the single mothers who had their babies taken away during the 50/60s ... but we're not talking changing the name of an area which has been called Tulse Hill since the 1650s!

There were people who watched the moon landing whose grandparents were slaves. The legacy of slavery lasts in the politics of the Caribbean and Africa and in the wealth of royalty and landed aristocracy today.


When will it all end?

Got my bingo card out btw...

 

[tonysingh]

There was a settlement called Lund before that, arguably a better name anyway. Feel free to point out those parts of the world still effected by a structural bias towards Rome, or the Celts getting excessively harassed by the police with Caesar's face on their helmets though.

Anyway, this is a nonsense argument. Over the last 30 odd years London has seen repeated waves of gentrification, whole communities being purged because it's more profitable for them to be elsewhere and services run down to nothing because a load of people reliant on them were viewed as non-profitable for those looking to invest. If you think the odd name change is the most egregious attack on London's fine history and culture then you've not been paying attention at all.

Fucking excellent point tbf

 

[Serge Forward]

Is that the best you can do? Is everyone and everything associated with something in the PAST that offends or hurts feelings to now be obliterated? PAST is PAST. We should be concentrating on the Present and the Future & where possible LEARN from the Past.

History is important, we can learn from the mistakes of the past. Monuments, plaques and street signs that celebrate the nefarious shouldn't be obliterated, they should be put in a fucking museum, where they belong. You talk about learning from the past but you are not interested in anyone really doing this. If you were, you wouldn't be bellyaching over someone wanting to bin off all the slave trader shite, from a time when such wankers were celebrated at the highest level.

By the way, there was a statue of Jimmy Savile (can't remember the place - Leeds maybe?). Now would you describe its removal as more of that cancel culture, because, y'know, history? And if not, why not?

 

[T & P]

To add to the mystery of this matter, we are literally 150-odd metres from Tulse Hill station, but every single estate agent around here describes any houses on our street as being in Herne Hill. Who am I to contradict Messrs Foxtons, Winkworth or Savills?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Felicity Kend-Hill

 

[tonysingh]

Jimmy Hill Shirley?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

just to be pedantic (i'm good at it)

london postal districts, as in "london, sw" came in the 19th century

postal areas, like SW2 came in during the 1914 war to make it easier for the temporary postmen/women covering for men away in the services

full postcodes, like SW2 1AA were about 1960s

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I doubt Benny Hill will be acceptable.

Jimmy Hill?

 

[ouirdeaux]

Piss take account, calling it now.

Hey! I did it earlier

 

[kabbes]

How gullible ARE you people? How blatant does a troll have to be before you don’t bother to respond?

 

[Cat Fan]

I'm just here for the birth certificate discussion. We demand proof!

On the Tulse Hill thing it's a bit late anyway isn't it? The name has already been changed to St. Martin's.

St. Martin's itself is an interesting choice because the name comes from the local school, which moved to the area from Trafalgar Square in 1928, so it doesn't have much history to it.

More detail here:

St Martin-in-the-Fields High School for Girls - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But hey, at least St. Martin didn't sell anyone into slavery, so I'll take it.

 

[Cat Fan]

How gullible ARE you people? How blatant does a troll have to be before you don’t bother to respond?

Who is the biggest fool? The troll, the ones responding to the troll, or the one responding to the ones responding to the troll?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Blueberry Hill?

 

[kabbes]

Blueberry Hill?

Kabbes Hill

 

[Magnus McGinty]

How gullible ARE you people? How blatant does a troll have to be before you don’t bother to respond?

I think people enjoy the bogeyman. It certainly works in politics.

 

[Raheem]

Fulonther Hill
Windows Hill

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Window Sill is clever. Might be a winner.

 

[newbie]

I'm just here for the birth certificate discussion. We demand proof!

On the Tulse Hill thing it's a bit late anyway isn't it? The name has already been changed to St. Martin's.

Well, part of the ward has, the bulk is now Rush Common, while the names of at least two roads, the area, the pub, the station, the Post Office and the estate are all currently unchanged, and mostly in Herne Hill anyway, if what I read on t'internet is correct..

 

[Cat Fan]

Well, part of the ward has, the bulk is now Rush Common, while the names of at least two roads, the area, the pub, the station, the Post Office and the estate are all currently unchanged, and mostly in Herne Hill anyway, if what I read on t'internet is correct..

It's a good point, but how does one go about changing the name of a train station? I think if the train station changed name then the rest would follow eventually.

The Tulse Hill hotel already changed names from being the Tulse Hill tavern, but the bus stop outside is still called Tulse Hill tavern. That's annoying for pedants.

 

[nick]

Aah - good call on the Tulse Hill Hotel / Tavern.
That was obviously the thin end of the wedge, and where it all began.
We now need born there to explain "where it all will end"

I doubt that the majority of locals or Londoners for that matter even knew the history behind Tulse ... Until recent publicity! Be honest did you know?

I didn't. But now I do. Didn't even know Tulse was a person
So the debate is a good thing.
Hopefully, whether or not names are changed and statues removed, plaques or whatever are put up to explain the historical context about why they were considered problematic.

 

[JimW]

Change it to Pulse Hill to appease (pudding) all you lentil munching virtue signalling hippy history erasers

 

[Pickman's model]

Change it to Pulse Hill to appease (pudding) all you lentil munching virtue signalling hippy history erasers

Everyone will assume residents have broken the Pythagorean prohibition and they're all flatulent

 

[nick]

good call. we should start a petition on www.chana.org



(ETA - gosh that is a real web site - who knew?

 

[JimW]

Got a like off Bornthere

 

[Bornthere]

just to be pedantic (i'm good at it)

london postal districts, as in "london, sw" came in the 19th century

postal areas, like SW2 came in during the 1914 war to make it easier for the temporary postmen/women covering for men away in the services

full postcodes, like SW2 1AA were

 

[Bornthere]

Already being used in 1957.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Didn't Gene Pitney do a song about it?

 

[brogdale]

Is he the bloke that sang about the Whitechapel lineman?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Is he the bloke that sang about the Whitechapel lineman?

no, that was the bloke who did the song about the nine stone cowboy