Should the fox hunting ban be lifted?

[fredfelt]

No thanks, this discussion has already passed through the membrane of reality into bizarro world.

I can't have a conversation with people if they seriously think fox hunting is the same as meat eating.

And it was just getting interesting.

From a human perspective hunting and eating meat are clearly different. However the point you are refusing or unable to grasp and that I've been banging on about is that from the perspective of the animal we put to a particular purpose it makes no difference why they die.

And if I can push my own agenda if one is passionate about banning fox hunting perhaps one can also question their relationship with animals and animal welfare.

 

[MrSki]

 

[zxspectrum]

And it was just getting interesting.

From a human perspective hunting and eating meat are clearly different. However the point you are refusing or unable to grasp and that I've been banging on about is that from the perspective of the animal we put to a particular purpose it makes no difference why they die.

And if I can push my own agenda if one is passionate about banning fox hunting perhaps one can also question their relationship with animals and animal welfare.

don't mistake disagreement for misunderstanding.

I have considered animal welfare - again you're making an assumption that i haven't. unfortunately you don't agree with my view, that I have explained already.

I'm not really sure that arguing from the point of view of the animal helps things. Naturally, from that perspective, the animal doesn't want to die, no more than any prey creature wants to die in nature. So for it whether or not it's for my survival or the amusement of Lord Double Barrell and his hooray henry chums is moot.

 

[Spymaster]

It was only a wally/returning provocateur getting a bashing, not meat eaters as a whole

Who's the returner?

 

[Orang Utan]

Who's the returner?

i don't know. ask our very own Poirot, butchersapron

 

[butchersapron]

Awesome wells/wish face

 

[Orang Utan]

aaaaaahhhhhh

 

[zxspectrum]

What?

 

[fredfelt]

don't mistake disagreement for misunderstanding.

I have considered animal welfare - again you're making an assumption that i haven't. unfortunately you don't agree with my view, that I have explained already.

I'm not really sure that arguing from the point of view of the animal helps things. Naturally, from that perspective, the animal doesn't want to die, no more than any prey creature wants to die in nature. So for it whether or not it's for my survival or the amusement of Lord Double Barrell and his hooray henry chums is moot.

Okay. So you are looking to reduce unnecessary cruelty. Is that exclusively through wanting fox hunting banned, or do you pay attention to what's in your control?

On the subject of unnecessary cruelty in what way do you consider animal welfare? For example do you only buy free range chicken? In a restaurant would you ask where your meat came from, or if you couldn't afford quality meat every day would you consider eating quality meat once a week / month?

Personally I'm volunteering to do the BBQ at an event. I've ordered 200 'steak' burgers which come from a particular farm, local rolls, etc. I do this each year and people tell me that it's one of the best burgers they have eaten. Anyway In my own little way this is an effort to champion showing a little more respect to the food that we eat. I'd refuse to be involved if value burgers were on the menu in an effort to reduce costs.

Anyway I ask as I'm interested in the disconnect that many have between very public displays of unnecessary cruelty and the unnecessary cruelty that's done behind closed doors and perpetuated by most people every day through their diets.

 

[zxspectrum]

Okay. So you are looking to reduce unnecessary cruelty. Is that exclusively through wanting fox hunting banned, or do you pay attention to what's in your control?

to be honest I'm not sure what anyone can really do. In this society we, ime, are so dependent on the systems that exist that i don't see much of a way out. If i want to buy clothes for instance I am limited by my budget which in turn limits me to, basically, Primark. There used to be more choice but the recession seems to have put paid to them. Primark aren't exactly the ideal place to buy clothes from but what can i do? Likewise I don't have the means to grow my diet entirely anymore than i have the power to hunt kill and cook my own meat. This is the world we have created for ourselves and it's a mess of exploitation and dependence. So yes i'd like there to be less animal cruelty in the world, but realistically it's going to take a hell of a lot to change things. Like most people I do the best I can, which I'm sure is far from enough. I don't really think that's deserving of scorn from the right on brigade though, but that's the internet for you.

 

[ddraig]

are you part of 'the right off brigade' then? and proud of it?

 

[zxspectrum]

I'm not part of any brigade. I think for myself.

 

[Citizen66]

I'm not part of any brigade. I think for myself.

Yeah, anyone who isn't a cunt is brain washed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

From a human perspective hunting and eating meat are clearly different. However the point you are refusing or unable to grasp and that I've been banging on about is that from the perspective of the animal we put to a particular purpose it makes no difference why they die.

But we're looking at it from a human perspective.

Of course it makes no difference to an animal why we're killing it. So what? The animal in many cases would be cognitively incapable of understanding the different reasons we might have to kill it. That's a meaningless point. It makes a difference to us why and how we kill other animals.

 

[zxspectrum]

Yeah, anyone who isn't a cunt is brain washed.

Don't straw man me

 

[Citizen66]

Don't straw man me

I wasn't, I was ripping the piss out of you.

 

[zxspectrum]

I wasn't, I was ripping the piss out of you.

Expertly done.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

But we're looking at it from a human perspective.

Of course it makes no difference to an animal why we're killing it. So what? The animal in many cases would be cognitively incapable of understanding the different reasons we might have to kill it. That's a meaningless point. It makes a difference to us why and how we kill other animals.

I think the point that fredfelt was getting at is that we need to take the animal's perspective (i.e. their subjective experience) into account when assessing our treatment of them, rather than fixating only on the reasons humans give for that treatment. Start from the point of view of the victim.

 

[ddraig]

but but they're only animals!! put here for us to eat! what other purpose is there for them?!!

 

[zxspectrum]

but but they're only animals!! put here for us to eat! what other purpose is there for them?!!

lovely straw man!

do you believe animals have a purpose then?

 

[ddraig]

do you have a purpose?

 

[Orang Utan]

but but they're only animals!!

It's a crude over simplistic way of putting it, but this is true. They ARE only animals. They are food.

 

[zxspectrum]

do you have a purpose?

Not intrinsically, no. Do you?

 

[ddraig]

It's a crude over simplistic way of putting it, but this is true. They ARE only animals. They are food.

why not roast one of the cats you look after the next time you feel a bit peckish then!

 

[Orang Utan]

why not roast one of the cats you look after the next time you feel a bit peckish then!

Cos I don't see them as food, but pets. I don't want to eat a pet.

 

[zxspectrum]

why not roast one of the cats you look after the next time you feel a bit peckish then!

YOu're a bit twisted really, aren't you; dreaming up all these unpleasant little fantasies.

 

[ddraig]

Cos I don't see them as food, but pets. I don't want to eat a pet.

ahhh but it's just an animal!!
where's your line and which lucky animals fit into the 'pet' category?

 

[ddraig]

YOu're a bit twisted really, aren't you; dreaming up all these unpleasant little fantasies.

what's twisted about it?, it's JUST an animal! they ARE food

 

[zxspectrum]

what's twisted about it?, it's JUST an animal! they ARE food

Just because animals, iuncluding humans btw, have no intrinsic purpose, doesn't mean people always want to go around killing them. Clearly your man has developed an emotional attachment to his pet. Why on earth would he want to kill it? You are a troubled soul!

 

[ddraig]

Just because animals, iuncluding humans btw, have no intrinsic purpose, doesn't mean people always want to go around killing them. Clearly your man has developed an emotional attachment to his pet. Why on earth would he want to kill it? You are a troubled soul!

but why not!? if you don't kill and eat them they will keep breeding and we'll be overrun!