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Shoplifting on the rise

TBH, I think those incidents are comparatively rare in the overall spectrum of shoplifting, and probably don't even constitute the bulk of the value of goods taken from shops (what is euphemistically referred to in the trade as "shrinkage", although that covers other losses too).

Mass thefts have become more common. Incidents like this have happened four times in the last two weeks in LA. In this case, they got more than $100,000 worth of purses from Nordstroms. They also used bear spray on employees and customers fled in fear like it was a mass shooting. They estimate that it was a crew of 30-50 people:



If you witnessed this, how soon would you return to the store?
 
I used to shoplift on a daily basis, not for me though, for the cool old man sitting outside my local co-op every night who loved apple pie. If he'd tried to nick them, then well, he'd be nicked. But me looking like a functioning member of society, even though I definitely was not, got away with it easily. Just tuck the pie under your arm while paying for your other shit and done. Once or twice he would get a little cheeky and ask me to go back in for some cream though.

Never busted. If they had stopped me I'd just say I'd forgot to pay, apologise profusely and gone back in and paid. Perception is everything. Why would this reasonable looking young man be stealing from us.
 
Mass thefts have become more common. Incidents like this have happened four times in the last two weeks in LA. In this case, they got more than $100,000 worth of purses from Nordstroms. They also used bear spray on employees and customers fled in fear like it was a mass shooting. They estimate that it was a crew of 30-50 people:



If you witnessed this, how soon would you return to the store?

I don't dispute what you're saying, but I fear that this ends up falling into the category of "fraudulent benefits claimant takes millions off the state", which ups the invective against benefits claimants or shoplifters in general, and ends up being used as the example for why we should put all benefits claimants/shoplifters in prison for life, for accidentally getting a date wrong, or pinching a tin of baby formula.

If we focus on the outrageous events, we end up doing the right wing/populist agenda's job for it...
 
I used to shoplift on a daily basis, not for me though, for the cool old man sitting outside my local co-op every night who loved apple pie. If he'd tried to nick them, then well, he'd be nicked. But me looking like a functioning member of society, even though I definitely was not, got away with it easily. Just tuck the pie under your arm while paying for your other shit and done. Once or twice he would get a little cheeky and ask me to go back in for some cream though.

Never busted. If they had stopped me I'd just say I'd forgot to pay, apologise profusely and gone back in and paid. Perception is everything. Why would this reasonable looking young man be stealing from us.

I used to wear a shirt and mac with nice slacks to go shoplifting. I kind of miss the thrill of it tbh.
 
I don't dispute what you're saying, but I fear that this ends up falling into the category of "fraudulent benefits claimant takes millions off the state", which ups the invective against benefits claimants or shoplifters in general, and ends up being used as the example for why we should put all benefits claimants/shoplifters in prison for life, for accidentally getting a date wrong, or pinching a tin of baby formula.

If we focus on the outrageous events, we end up doing the right wing/populist agenda's job for it...

The "slippery slope" is always a problem with whatever you do. The US tends toward extremes so it's an understandable worry, especially in deep red states.

That's why we need to rewrite the laws on shoplifting. At least in the US, these smash and grabs have been handled like individual incidents of shoplifting. The ycharge each as an individual, who only stole a small amount of merchandise. Usually, that's only a misdemeanor and they're let of with what amounts to a warning. As has been pointed out these incidents are different, so they should be handled differently so they aren't confused with a poor mom taking a little formula to feed her baby.

The other thing we need to deal with is wealth inequality. I see the rise of mass criminal gangs as related. A lot of communities offer very little opportunity for someone with only a high school diploma, or no diploma. At best, you're going to be working at a fast-food place for minimum wage. We need to address the low wages for many jobs and provide a clear path for people to better their lives. The sad thing is that mass thefts often cause businesses to close (I can provide examples if you want). That leaves fewer job opportunities in at risk communities.
 
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I remember the tough on crime tough on the causes of crime from T Blair and co. Thing is dealing with the causes means big move to change inequality. Its easier to be tough on crime and lock more people up than deal with the causes. As happened in the end under the New Labour project.

I think a lot of people who go on like this don't really push fundamental changes to deal with causes. Other than rhetorically so they they do not appear illiberal.

Dealing with the causes must come first. Rather than get into debates about what should be treated as "real" crime.
 
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I was a complete kleptomaniac when I was a young teenager. Would nick everything, mostly records. I'm not proud of it really and it's something I would never have the balls to do these days.
 
The "slippery slope" is always a problem with whatever you do. The US tends toward extremes so it's an understandable worry, especially in deep red states.

That's why we need to rewrite the laws on shoplifting. At least in the US, these smash and grabs have been handled like individual incidents of shoplifting. The ycharge each as an individual, who only stole a small amount of merchandise. Usually, that's only a misdemeanor and they're let of with what amounts to a warning. As has been pointed out these incidents are different, so they should be handled differently so they aren't confused with a poor mom taking a little formula to feed her baby.

The other thing we need to deal with is wealth inequality. I see the rise of mass criminal gangs as related. A lot of communities offer very little opportunity for someone with only a high school diploma, or no diploma. At best, you're going to be working at a fast-food place for minimum wage. We need to address the low wages for many jobs and provide a clear path for people to better their lives. The sad thing is that mass thefts often cause businesses to close (I can provide examples if you want). That leaves fewer job opportunities in at risk communities.

In the UK that video would definitely make out a charge for both Riot and also aggravated burglary, you coukd probably make out a robbery too. In the normal course of events the CPS would never run those , but fold in the conspiracy and, if you got a few of these stoking a moral panic, I imagine the old bill and CPS would join up to make a couple of examples. Pre and post event video combined with in that many people there will be loads who talk to others, plus cell site analysis and other stuff mean a major crime investigation would probably identify at least half. Bit of political pressure and a dozen or so ridiculous sentences,16/17 years and you wouldn’t get many more. Similar the the last but one lot of riots.

In the states I can’t imagine it would be that different, although maybe if you did it in a small police force area they might not have the investigative capacity?
 
In the UK that video would definitely make out a charge for both Riot and also aggravated burglary, you coukd probably make out a robbery too. In the normal course of events the CPS would never run those , but fold in the conspiracy and, if you got a few of these stoking a moral panic, I imagine the old bill and CPS would join up to make a couple of examples. Pre and post event video combined with in that many people there will be loads who talk to others, plus cell site analysis and other stuff mean a major crime investigation would probably identify at least half. Bit of political pressure and a dozen or so ridiculous sentences,16/17 years and you wouldn’t get many more. Similar the the last but one lot of riots.

In the states I can’t imagine it would be that different, although maybe if you did it in a small police force area they might not have the investigative capacity?

I'm glad to hear that it would be handled differently in the UK. In the US, this is mostly a large city issue. In the Obama administration the Republicans* clamped down on the federal budget and it limited the funds going to large cities for law enforcement. Cities like Chicago and LA found that they didn't have enough police to adequately deal with everything going on. Over time, they've pulled back on enforcement efforts for things they can characterize as "petty crime."

* The Republicans did this deliberately so they could claim that liberals are either "soft on crime" or can't handle running cities.
 
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I'm glad to hear that it would be handled differently in the UK. In the US, this is mostly a large city issue. In the Obama administration the Republicans clamped down on the federal budget and it limited the funds going to large cities for law enforcement. Cities like Chicago and LA found that they didn't have enough police to adequately deal with everything going on. Over time, they've pulled back on enforcement efforts for things they can characterize as "petty crime."
Not saying ot would, just that it could if there was a will. Will depend on how often it happens here and if there is a moral panic, which would bring political (and probably at the current time Political ) interest and pressure. Would also quite likely see a fair few young people, likely with an over preponderance of them being black or brown, spending a big chunk of their lives behind bars.
 
Correct. the other two though, bingo.
Not really, because the meanings you are using are essentially the same meanings intended for the words when used as board game names.

I recommend you apologise and delete your entire post, not just the lego bit.
 
Not really, because the meanings you are using are essentially the same meanings intended for the words when used as board game names.

I recommend you apologise and delete your entire post, not just the lego bit.

You have obviously never played Risk or Monopoly then, which we all knew as they can bring joy to people.
 
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