Several people shot dead in Plymouth 12 August 2021

[kabbes]

However he was apparently quite intelligent and his warped views were self feeding. He chose to mix online with these incel groups.
Why does his education or the fact he might or might not have been bullied as a kid in school need any space in this?

Because there is no such thing as a context-free “free choice”. He wasn’t born with misogyny or hatred or alienated or anything else. Mojo’s post is spot on. He became something inside a culture. It’s not just “free choice, he’s a monster, nothing more to see.”

 

[maomao]

Because there is no such thing as a context-free “free choice”. He wasn’t born with misogyny or hatred or alienated or anything else. Mojo’s post is spot on. He became something inside a culture. It’s not just “free choice, he’s a monster, nothing more to see.”

And it's not about excuses. It's about flagging how this happens.

 

[The39thStep]

Moat didn't have a firearms licence when he started killing people FWIW

Neither did Dale Creagan

 

[pogofish]

What’s the feeling against women made of though? Is it to do with women taking the jobs or is it to do with women not giving them sex or both or neither?

It struck me as a very determined effort to utterly dehumanise and negate women as any significant part of society. Basically reduce women to the status of subservient/second-rate sex toys, home-keepers and brood mares, with no capacity of their own, depending on just what sort of “quality” they were.

And yes, I’d say the whole “piller”/incel ”culture” is riddled with often openly far-right ideology. Young men looking to ”justify“/wallow-in, “change”, understand or “improve” their social/sexual situations were clearly identified as a fertile recruiting ground by these cunts early-on and there is (or was, it’s been ages since I had a look and promptly recoiled in horror!) a whole lot of “you will only score if you adopt our mindset/ideology” lessons that await desperate and often obviously psychologically troubled young hopefuls out there.

 

[BigMoaner]

It struck me as a very determined effort to utterly dehumanise and negate women as any significant part of society. Basically reduce women to the status of subservient/second-rate sex toys, home-keepers and brood mares, with no capacity of their own, depending on just what sort of “quality” they were.

And yes, I’d say the whole “piller”/incel ”culture” is riddled with often openly far-right ideology. Young men looking to ”justify“/wallow-in, “change” or “improve” their social/sexual situations were clearly identified as a fertile recruiting ground by these cunts early-on and there is (or was, it’s been ages since I had a look and promptly recoiled in horror!) a whole lot of “you will only score if you adopt our mindset/ideology” lessons that await desperate and often obviously psychologically troubled young hopefuls out there.

Toxic beyond belief.

 

[pogofish]

Oh yep. Was asking about the children planetgeli works with, their women-hating, not the men already fallen into that trap.

I’d hazard a guess that children might be seen as the product (dehumanisation again) of the sort of “successful“ relationships they are denied- and hated for it.

eta - read that wrong, sorry - but the hatred for couples/children does seem to be something else stoked by those types.

 

[BigMoaner]

Must be addictive. Go out and get rejected each and every way. But ah ha, go online and it's suddenly not your fault. It's them! All self doubt and insecurity blasted away with just one half hour peak down the rabbit hole. Until next time they go out that is.

 

[Pickman's model]

Must be addictive. Go out and get rejected each and every way. But ah ha, go online and it's suddenly not your fault. It's them! All self doubt and insecurity blasted away with just one half hour peak down the rabbit hole. Until next time they go out that is.

i suspect that an unusually high proportion of these objectionable virgins, relative to the population at large, could have personal hygiene issues. so a little soap and water might go some way to help them reduce the obstacles they face in any sort of relationship with other people, be that sexual, professional or friendship.

 

[Plumdaff]

It's harder to thinking of more toxicity in a community. Nonces and racists perhaps.

The idea that non virgin women are "ruined" and therefore it's desperately awful for men to have "missed out" on sex with a virgin is a part of Incel ideology. Yes, it's about viewing women as property but part and parcel of that is a dubious fetishisation of very young women and female virginity.

 

[BigMoaner]

i suspect that an unusually high proportion of these objectionable virgins, relative to the population at large, could have personal hygiene issues. so a little soap and water might go a long way to help them reduce the obstacles they face in any sort of relationship with other people, be that sexual, professional or friendship.

I remember a comedian and a woman he was interviewing talking about incels. He asked her what advice she would give. And she said "wear a nice t shirt." that's it? "yeah, forget self confidence, pick up lines etc and being an alpha and trying so damn hard etc.
Just wear a nice t shirt. Ask your best dressed mates for advice. You demand womem to look nice, well guess what if you want your hat in the ring, at least wear a nice t shirt."

They become so single minded and so obsessed about getting laid, that they really have nothing left soul wise. I think what she was saying is to stop trying, get a life, but for God sake sharpen up a little, and a way of saying women don't owe you shit for all your obsessions and efforts.

 

[pogofish]

Must be addictive. Go out and get rejected each and every way. But ah ha, go online and it's suddenly not your fault. It's them! All self doubt and insecurity blasted away with just one half hour peak down the rabbit hole. Until next time they go out that is.

Some of the “mentors” to these guys actively encourage it on a very regular basis - and when they come back sorely disappointed again, the reasons why are almost invariably due to something in the women that falls far short of recognition of the man’s “superiority” or that they are a dangerously unstable left-winger/gold-digger etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

I remember a comedian and a woman he was interviewing talking about incels. He asked her what advice she would give. And she said "wear a nice t shirt." that's it? "yeah, forget self confidence, pick up lines etc and being an alpha and trying so damn hard etc.
Just wear a nice t shirt. Ask your best dressed mates for advice. You demand womem to look nice, well guess what if you want your hat in the ring, at least wear a nice t shirt."

They become so single minded and so obsessed about getting laid, that they really have nothing left soul wise. I think what she was saying is to stop trying, get a life, but for God sake sharpen up a little, and a way of saying women don't owe you shit for all your obsessions and efforts.

i entirely agree. so often with relationships while you're actively looking you'll never find what you're after but when you stop looking you find one.

 

[Idris2002]

i suspect that an unusually high proportion of these objectionable virgins, relative to the population at large, could have personal hygiene issues. so a little soap and water might go some way to help them reduce the obstacles they face in any sort of relationship with other people, be that sexual, professional or friendship.

Additionally, they would also need coaching in basic social skills - the most basic, "janet and john", words-of-one-syllable-or-less level of social skills. Some people never learn them, or ever have the opportunity to learn them: they will need something more than "just be yourself".

 

[BigMoaner]

i entirely agree. so often with relationships while you're actively looking you'll never find what you're after but when you stop looking you find one.

Yep the neediness not beaming out

 

[Idris2002]

Ask your best dressed mates for advice.

And the person who doesn't have a mate, well dressed or otherwise? Who does he ask?

According to this reddit thread, the Plymouth shithouse did try to break out of the subculture, but fell back into it (or chose to fall back into it). This is in addition to the kind of creepy bullshit you'd expect from those of the incel persuasion:

Spoiler

Non-rhetorical question: what does this mean? The pedo, or pedo-adjacent stuff indicates overexposure to pornography, for one thing.

 

[Edie]

Because shooting sports are a thing.

My decision tree would look like this:

Are you a farmer who needs a gun to kill animals occasionally? Yes, have a licensed gun.

Are you someone who likes to kill animals for fun? No, no gun for you.

As for people who like to shoot targets, they can do that with an air rifle under supervision or something. Weirdos.

 

[BigMoaner]

And the person who doesn't have a mate, well dressed or otherwise? Who does he ask?

According to this reddit thread, the Plymouth shithouse did try to break out of the subculture, but fell back into it (or chose to fall back into it). This is in addition to the kind of creepy bullshit you'd expect from those of the incel persuasion:

Spoiler

Non-rhetorical question: what does this mean? The pedo, or pedo-adjacent stuff indicates overexposure to pornography, for one thing.

I'm not sure. Definitely not shooting 3 year old in the head though.

 

[Pickman's model]

Additionally, they would also need coaching in basic social skills - the most basic, "janet and john", words-of-one-syllable-or-less level of social skills. Some people never learn them, or ever have the opportunity to learn them: they will need something more than "just be yourself".

oh it begins with a spot of soap and water, it won't end there

 

[Pickman's model]

My decision tree would look like this:

Are you a farmer who needs a gun to kill animals occasionally? Yes, have a licensed gun.

Are you someone who likes to kill animals for fun? No, no gun for you.

As for people who like to shoot targets, they can do that with an air rifle under supervision or something. Weirdos.

clay pigeons?

i don't know on what basis yer man applied for his licence. but it's pretty much the only thing which occurs to me as i can't see many (legitimate) reasons for having a shotgun in plymouth

 

[Idris2002]

oh it begins with a spot of soap and water, it won't end there

Sometimes there is shampoo.

 

[BigMoaner]

And the person who doesn't have a mate, well dressed or otherwise? Who does he ask?

According to this reddit thread, the Plymouth shithouse did try to break out of the subculture, but fell back into it (or chose to fall back into it). This is in addition to the kind of creepy bullshit you'd expect from those of the incel persuasion:

Spoiler

Non-rhetorical question: what does this mean? The pedo, or pedo-adjacent stuff indicates overexposure to pornography, for one thing.

Obvisouly he's a tragedy. A tragic life. I do have sympathy. Obvisouly a very troubled man.

 

[Edie]

clay pigeons?

i don't know on what basis yer man applied for his licence. but it's pretty much the only thing which occurs to me as i can't see many (legitimate) reasons for having a shotgun in plymouth

See: under supervision. Do you even need the type of gun he used for clay pigeons? Pretty sure spymaster likes a bit of shooting. Definitely a candidate for close supervision.

 

[Pickman's model]

See: under supervision. Do you even need the type of gun he used for clay pigeons?

i don't think an air rifle is much use against a clay pigeon.

hmm. not sure

Spoiler: video of air rifle clay pigeon shooting

 

[souljacker]

As for people who like to shoot targets, they can do that with an air rifle under supervision or something. Weirdos.

My Dad has been shooting .22 rifles his whole life. He's far from weird. Proper straight person in fact.

 

[BillRiver]

i suspect that an unusually high proportion of these objectionable virgins, relative to the population at large, could have personal hygiene issues. so a little soap and water might go some way to help them reduce the obstacles they face in any sort of relationship with other people, be that sexual, professional or friendship.

Do you have evidence for that or is it just an assumption?

I'm a right minger as regards personal hygiene and yet have never had any trouble finding people who want to have sex with me. Quite the opposite in fact, back in the day (when I was sexually active).

 

[Edie]

Yknow, I don’t really care about people who shoot clay pigeons. I just don’t think guns need to be about in the community. That’s pretty much it for me.

(sure your Dads a lovely fella souljacker )

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you have evidence for that or is it just an assumption?

I'm a right minger as regards personal hygiene and yet have never had any trouble finding people who want to have sex with me. Quite the opposite, back in the day.

when i say i suspect it means it's a belief. i don't suppose every right minger has difficulty finding a partner. but if people are having difficulty finding a partner then it's probably best to minimise the obstacles to that.

 

[LDC]

See: under supervision. Do you even need the type of gun he used for clay pigeons? Pretty sure spymaster likes a bit of shooting. Definitely a candidate for close supervision.

We don't know exactly what type of shotgun he had yet, but yes you need a shotgun for clay pigeons. Although generally it's not a pump action that's used.

Your comments on 'need' to have a shotgun or firearm are spoken like a true urban dweller. And Urban dweller!

UK has pretty much the strictest firearms laws in Europe (if not the world), but guess you're suggesting a complete ban on all ownership of any type of firearms, which I suspect isn't the case anywhere else in the world.

 

[BillRiver]

when i say i suspect it means it's a belief.

Beliefs can be based on evidence, or can be pure blind faith.

 

[kabbes]

Something that came up in the book I am reading today that seems pertinent to the discussion in this thread