Saudi Arabia allows women to travel independently

[tim]

It's not but look at that list and you'd be hard pushed to disagree that pretty much 100% of muslim states have vile regimes. Is there such a common denominator elsewhere?

Being former colonies or "protectorates" of the British, French or Ottoman Empires would be a good one.

Just being poor would be another.

I'd also say that vileness is relative. Hand chopping whippings and mass executions tend to be a speciality of the Saudis and the Iranians not a general "Muslim" thing.

 

[Spymaster]

Being former colonies or "protectorates" of the British, French or Ottoman Empires would be a good one.

Just being poor would be another.

With 100% records?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I'd like to visit most of them.

I presume you're not a woman.

 

[tim]

With 100% records?

All the countries on your list fit in the first category, even Iran was invaded and occupied by the British in the last century.

Anyway, what makes the likes of Tunisia or Malaysia particularly vile? All states are somewhere on the cline of vileness.

 

[strung out]

I presume you're not a woman.

Malaysia is as safe as virtually any western country if you're a woman and much safer than all the neighbouring non Muslim countries in the region.

 

[Spymaster]

All the countries on your list fit in the first category, even Iran was invaded and occupied by the British in the last century.

We're discussing the state of these places now, today. Not scores or hundreds of years ago.

 

[tim]

.

I presume you're not a woman.

No, but but not only Muslim countries are bastions of misogyny.

 

[Spymaster]

.


No, but but not only Muslim countries are bastions of misogyny.

No. But pretty much all muslim countries are.

 

[tim]

We're discussing the state of these places now, today. Not scores or hundreds of years ago.

How these did places get to be the way they are "today"?

 

[tim]

No. But pretty much all muslim countries are.

Pretty much most of the world is.

 

[Spymaster]

How these did places get to be the way they are "today"?

Not purely by western intervention. It may have played a part in history but muslim countries are sexist and homophobic because of the brands of islam that they practice, not because the Brits invaded them 200 years ago.

 

[Spymaster]

Pretty much most of the world is.

Not to the same extent where sexism and homophobia are written into law.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

.


No, but but not only Muslim countries are bastions of misogyny.

I wouldn't choose to visit any country which has misogyny written into its law.

 

[tim]

I wouldn't choose to visit any country which has misogyny written into its law.

I said I'd like to visit, not that I liked the regime or that I intended to visit.

 

[Humberto]

Not purely by western intervention. It may have played a part in history but muslim countries are sexist and homophobic because of the brands of islam that they practice, not because the Brits invaded them 200 years ago.

It suits the American and British elite to ally with them even if the Saudi regime rule with brutality. Oil one way, arms the other.

 

[tim]

Not to the same extent where sexism and homophobia are written into law.

To much the same extent in many places.

 

[Spymaster]

It suits the American and British elite to ally with them even if the Saudi regime rule with brutality. Oil one way, arms the other.

Indeed.

 

[Spymaster]

To much the same extent in many places.

Which ones would they be then? With the exceptions of a couple of caribbean islands, in which non-muslim nations is homosexuality illegal and punishable? Give us a few examples of discrimination against women by law in some non-muslim countries.

We're talking today. Not 10 years ago, not 100 years ago. Today.

 

[tim]

I wouldn't choose to visit any country which has misogyny written into its law.

Would you visit decidedly non-Muslim Latin America where there are vile levels of violence against women? Or the USA where states access to abortion in many states is virtually nonexistent; and where last month a woman was jailed for manslaughter, after being shot during an argument and subsequently miscarrying. A case of misogyny being clearly deeply embedded in the legal system.

https://www.thedialogue.org/blogs/2...-femicide-legislation-possible-steps-forward/

 

[tim]

Which ones would they be then? With the exceptions of a couple of caribbean islands, in which non-muslim states is homosexuality illegal and punishable? Give us a few examples of discrimination against women by law in some non-muslim countries.

We're talking today. Not 10 years ago, not 100 years ago. Today.

Homosexuality: Kenya, Zimbabwe, Malawi, just of the top of my head.

As to women's rights, well women in Northern Ireland still doesn't allow abortion in most circumstances. That'll have to do for tonight.

 

[Spymaster]

As to women's rights, well women in Northern Ireland still doesn't allow abortion in most circumstances.

Yep. That's completely comparable to executing women for adultery, caning them for immodest clothing, and imprisoning rape victims because some blokes with beards say that's the law.

 

[tim]

Yep. That's completely comparable to executing women for adultery, caning them for immodest clothing, and imprisoning rape victims because some blokes with beards say that's the law.

Yes, but that's Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran, three of the states in your list of ignominy not all the countries in the list. It doesn't reflect the reality in Turkey, Tunisia, Malaysia, or Morocco for example. It doesn't reflect the reality even in a much poorer country like Bangladesh which hasn't had a male head of government since 1991.

 

[Spymaster]

Yes, but that's Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran, three of the states in your list of ignominy not all the countries in the list. It doesn't reflect the reality in Turkey, Tunisia, Malaysia, or Morocco for example. It doesn't reflect the reality even in a much poorer country like Bangladesh which hasn't had a male head of government since 1991.

Some Muslim nations are a bit more progressive than Saudi Arabia and Iran. Let’s give them a round of applause.

 

[Celyn]

Being former colonies or "protectorates" of the British, French or Ottoman Empires would be a good one.

...

Canada, New Zealand, Australia?

 

[Don Troooomp]

See previous Quote. Invariably overseas workers are lucky if they get paid at all. I imagine they are regularly beaten, probably have to buy their way out of "employment contracts"
which they can't afford to do, and forced to work umpteen hours a day every day, with little food or water. Health and safety is probably non-existant.
Sometimes you can try and polish a turd; not this one.

This turd can be polished ... but only sometimes.

I've been looking at the issues faced by foreign workers in Saudi over the last three or four years (Mostly looking at India and Philippines), some stories being positively horrendous, most pretty neutral, but some working out very well for the migrant workers as they run up a load of debt then sod off without paying. They're only fucked if they want to go back, fairly rarely being turned around at the airport unless the bank or loan company has already made a court complaint against them. If they're travel banned, they can't leave legally so can end up in a serious mess.
The bad cases see people having a struggle to get paid and suffer pretty much everything else in the quote, and a good number have that abuse to put up with. The worst are either raped and/or killed, a few even being executed when they kill their rapist/otherwise physically abusive boss. Even reporting a rape is dodgy ground as the victim is quite likely to end up as a defendant and punished as if she did something wrong.

A very slightly polished but generally very smelly turd.

We can add a little more stink to the toilet - Saudi funds and supports terrorism (Murdering people out shopping and so on), and even offer sanctury to many wanted criminals - but only mass murderers, terrorist supporters/funders, and other assorted gits if they claim they did it for Islam.

Bit hard to find nice things to say about Saudis, or at least the ones that think up crackpots rules and those that want to follow them. As for the people that deliberately abuse foreign workers - Do I really need to clarify my thoughts about that load of cunts?

 

[Don Troooomp]

Almost forgot - Saudis sponsor or set up schools in other countries that teach Wahhabism, an especially nasty brand of Islam that encourages everything bad that people commonly associate with Islam. Many of the world's major terrorist bastards went to these schools.
Thank fucking you, Saudi Arabia, you cunts.

 

[tim]

Canada, New Zealand, Australia?

Settler colonies, where the indigenous population fared worse than the population of any of the Muslim countries on the list, as was the case in the former American colonies, too.

 

[Saul Goodman]

one could say that SA is beginning to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the modern world.

You think?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yeh how much better this country is than those dreadful Saudis

But wait a minute, this country's sent troops and sold a load of weapons to defend this peculiar dynasty, not to mention slavishly defending them in international institutions

What's that make the UK?

Yebbut... let's turn a blind eye to that, because foreignz iz bad! Let's not even stop to think for a second about all of the atrocities carried out by English cunts! Let's just focus on the foreignz!

 

[StoneRoad]

You think?

no, I was being sarcastic, SA has only got to the eighteen but with modern technology.