Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[nagapie]

My point was I’m not going to use those allegations to cast judgement on a man I’ve never met. I can pass judgement on his grating presentation style that makes any subject he talks about a wacky conspiracy. He’s not an asset in that regard. The thing that’ll sit with me was the timing, who was behind it and why.

You can pass judgement on the fact that he's a noxious rapist cunt who also spreads dangerous lies and disinformation to millions of people who believe him. I am not interested in celebrity but I have worked with people who listen to this guy and think he was set up. Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[mojo pixy]

Maybe I’m not invested in the whole celebrity thing. I didn’t read the allegations at the time because I wasn’t in the Uk. I never watched his videos cos he’s really fucking annoying. But yeah I’m aware there’s horrible people out there. Another celebrity is not a surprise.

Right, but you posted...

I’m not going to use those allegations to cast judgement on a man I’ve never met. I can pass judgement on his grating presentation style that makes any subject he talks about a wacky conspiracy. He’s not an asset in that regard. The thing that’ll sit with me was the timing, who was behind it and why.

...which looks as if you have something important to say about why RB is currently being shamed. It looks as if you think it's not only his behaviour that has led him to this. As if (((someone))) is 'behind it', as you put it.

So, who? And why?

This is actually important, because RB himself has been known to suggest he's the victim in all this. I predict that's going to be one of his ongoing whines about his situation, and we haven't finished hearing it. So for it to be amplified by someone who claims not to even care is ... weird, and worrying.

Just condemn the fucker and move on. There's nothing to be gained by defending him, or looking for hidden hands. He brought this entirely on himself with his disgusting behaviour, and he deserves all the derision and scorn he hasn't finished getting.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

No. As I said, he is responsible for his behavior. But he would have been enabled and others would have known about it. And sat on that information until it made most sense to make it public. Certainly not when he was making movies in Hollywood as that would have been a loss on investment.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

why must you have my condemnation to make you feel better?

 

[nagapie]

No. As I said, he is responsible for his behavior. But he would have been enabled and others would have known about it. And sat on that information until it made most sense to make it public. Certainly not when he was making movies in Hollywood as that would have been a loss on investment.

Of course people would have protected him, he's a white rich powerful male whose lies protect those in power. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be called out and exposed.

 

[mojo pixy]

why must you have my condemnation to make you feel better?

It's not about feels, it's about reading posts that seem to be promoting some kind of conspiracy theory, that take agency from a sex pest and his victims and give it instead to some hidden hand.

If you won't condemn him, how about being a bit more forthright about what or whose hidden hand is doing this? Either would be fine tbh. But sinister handwaving is just silly. Just say what you mean, we're all grownups here

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

No. As I said, he is responsible for his behavior. But he would have been enabled and others would have known about it. And sat on that information until it made most sense to make it public. Certainly not when he was making movies in Hollywood as that would have been a loss on investment.

100% certain that no-one on Urban is among those enablers. So maybe, just maybe, it's actually appropriate for Urban to not ignore it when multiple, credible allegations of abuse come to light?

It’s not like any of you have atoned is it? It’s all very well cussing off a famous person because it allows your sins to be forgotten. Amirite lads cos you are all well squeaky clean innit. Although by your glee at pointing fingers I probably guess you ain’t.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is an odd line to paraphrase when the abuser in question is cosplaying a religious conversion as a means of PR deflection.

 

[kabbes]

why must you have my condemnation to make you feel better?

I don’t need you to condemn him, but I would prefer that you don’t actively go on the attack against those who do. If you feel that you don’t have a dog in the fight then simply don’t introduce your dog to the fight. Otherwise, you are indeed picking a side, and it’s not that of the victims of abuse.

 

[BigMoaner]

My point was I’m not going to use those allegations to cast judgement on a man I’ve never met. I can pass judgement on his grating presentation style that makes any subject he talks about a wacky conspiracy. He’s not an asset in that regard. The thing that’ll sit with me was the timing, who was behind it and why.

Enlighten us - who was behind it and why?

Outting sex offenders who have never been caught by victims of their abuse always sits right with me, whoever is outting them and "why".

 

[BigMoaner]

some weird dimensional shit going on with these conversations. An alleged rapist, no less. I don't understand peoples realities any more. Even if it was a perfect left wing hero, if there was mass allegations from teh right wing press i would still be not spinning it in some conspiracy. And even if he was found guilty, I would thank the right wing press on behalf of the victims, even if there was some political motive behind it.

 

[andysays]

My point was I’m not going to use those allegations to cast judgement on a man I’ve never met. I can pass judgement on his grating presentation style that makes any subject he talks about a wacky conspiracy. He’s not an asset in that regard. The thing that’ll sit with me was the timing, who was behind it and why.

So, if you're suggesting there was some sort of deliberate plot behind the allegations being made public when they were, who do you think was behind it and why?

 

[Kaka Tim]

so brand has gone all jesus weesus, holy ghosty-whosty has he? shameless twat.

 

[BigMoaner]

No. As I said, he is responsible for his behavior. But he would have been enabled and others would have known about it. And sat on that information until it made most sense to make it public". Certainly not when he was making movies in Hollywood as that would have been a loss on investment.

so you thnk because he is actively and vocally anti "main stream meeeeeeeedia" (the ultimate batton cry for every conspiracy addled lunatic on the internet), the press decided to take him down?

if that was true - so what? are the press and C4 not entitled to throw something back as the internet howls at them for being in the pockets of the rothchilds or something, which is now an extremely common belief? Russel Brand's whole schtick is that all these media operations are out to enslave us all, that they are all "in on it". If I was the editor of a national and some allegations came my way i probably would go hard on him too. Why not, isn't that the whole point of a "free press?" They can report what and how they like within libel laws, etc?

sorry boris but any defence or spin or flip flopping around this creep is deranged. it really is.

 

[Pickman's model]

so brand has gone all jesus weesus, holy ghosty-whosty has he? shameless twat.

The last refuge of a scoundrel

 

[Wilf]

My point was I’m not going to use those allegations to cast judgement on a man I’ve never met. I can pass judgement on his grating presentation style that makes any subject he talks about a wacky conspiracy. He’s not an asset in that regard. The thing that’ll sit with me was the timing, who was behind it and why.

Ah, yes, his grating presentation style, that's the problem.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah, yes, his grating presentation style, that's the problem.

and the shit he comes out with

 

[Aladdin]

It’s the actual corporal stench of his soul that I was talking about. I’ve met him very briefly. It could have been someone else, but I doubt it

You can judge a soul?

But even Jesus washed his dick every now and then.

You think you are funny?

who would have thought that a serial abuser drunk on power would find a home in the Catholic Church?

Cos all Catholics are drunken abusers eh?

I don't understand this...and I actually for the first time in my time on urban ..I actually feel quite threatened by you Orang Utan . I would be afraid to meet you. I feel that you would not treat me with respect...or tolerance.


I fully understand that RB allegedly raped women and he has always seemed a creepy piece of work to me. So I get the dislike of his personality and cringey shit and I can understand the condemnation of his abuse od women and girls and alleged rapes. This is 100% something he needs to account for and be judged for in court. If proven guilty then I would hope he does time. But my view is not motivated by hatred of his turn to Christianity. His conversion to Christianity / Catholicism is not something I will judge. If he has done it for the right reasons and believes the true message of Christ who am I or anyone to judge his motives? He will have had to do a lot of work to get to the stage where he has been baptised into Catholicism. And whoever has worked with him will have had to assess his commitment in some way. But all that is between him and God . He may well be trying his best to be a better human being.

But this is, in my view, a very separate thing to his upcoming court cases. He still needs to atone to the law and pay whatever price the courts decide. That is right.. that is what society demands and it is right that there is justice for victims. I would think he will spend time in jail if convicted. I also believe as a Christian that he should atone for what he has done and apologise and pay retribution for it.

On a separate note...as a Catholic, I do find some of the anti Catholic posts above very unsettling. They'repossibly written in jest.. but I cannot rule out that Orang Utan may actually detest someone like me. It does affect me. Some people I thought were ok..fair people...who suddenly turn on the "all catholics are drunken abusers" type of thing. It's pretty clear to me that Christians are detested already by many groups. And the thing is that most of the worst people who have surfaced in Christianity and specifically the Catholic Church have been the least Christian of all but all of us are tarred.

I don't want to cause an argument. I considered sending a pm but I didn't want a debate about how I am feeling because it would become about me and my "feelings"... I am just stating it here and now that the attitude in the quotes above is in my view anti - Christian. I am fully aware that many here already find Christianity a joke..and poke fun at Catholicism...and that I will get grief for posting this. But I cannot just let it be...It would not sit well with my conscience to laugh at or support what OU has posted above.


That's all I want to say on this.

 

[Ax^]

so brand has gone all jesus weesus, holy ghosty-whosty has he? shameless twat.

hmm not sure he a catholic more a more again evangelistic twat

 

[krtek a houby]

You can judge a soul?

You think you are funny?

Cos all Catholics are drunken abusers eh?

I don't understand this...and I actually for the first time in my time on urban ..I actually feel quite threatened by you Orang Utan . I would be afraid to meet you. I feel that you would not treat me with respect...or tolerance.


I fully understand that RB allegedly raped women and he has always seemed a creepy piece of work to me. So I get the dislike of his personality and cringey shit and I can understand the condemnation of his abuse od women and girls and alleged rapes. This is 100% something he needs to account for and be judged for in court. If proven guilty then I would hope he does time. But my view is not motivated by hatred of his turn to Christianity. His conversion to Christianity / Catholicism is not something I will judge. If he has done it for the right reasons and believes the true message of Christ who am I or anyone to judge his motives? He will have had to do a lot of work to get to the stage where he has been baptised into Catholicism. And whoever has worked with him will have had to assess his commitment in some way. But all that is between him and God . He may well be trying his best to be a better human being.

But this is, in my view, a very separate thing to his upcoming court cases. He still needs to atone to the law and pay whatever price the courts decide. That is right.. that is what society demands and it is right that there is justice for victims. I would think he will spend time in jail if convicted. I also believe as a Christian that he should atone for what he has done and apologise and pay retribution for it.

On a separate note...as a Catholic, I do find some of the anti Catholic posts above very unsettling. They'repossibly written in jest.. but I cannot rule out that Orang Utan may actually detest someone like me. It does affect me. Some people I thought were ok..fair people...who suddenly turn on the "all catholics are drunken abusers" type of thing. It's pretty clear to me that Christians are detested already by many groups. And the thing is that most of the worst people who have surfaced in Christianity and specifically the Catholic Church have been the least Christian of all but all of us are tarred.

I don't want to cause an argument. I considered sending a pm but I didn't want a debate about how I am feeling because it would become about me and my "feelings"... I am just stating it here and now that the attitude in the quotes above is in my view anti - Christian. I am fully aware that many here already find Christianity a joke..and poke fun at Catholicism...and that I will get grief for posting this. But I cannot just let it be...It would not sit well with my conscience to laugh at or support what OU has posted above.


That's all I want to say on this.

Yeah, even as an atheist, it used to bother a bit. Couldn't care less these days. All religions are full of charlatans, abusers and wrong uns, so they absolutely should be up for ridicule.

I'm fairly sure nobody knows for sure what the true message of Christ is, given that all the old religions have been twisted over millennia... but whatever it is, I doubt that the likes of Brand are honest about their faith.

And at least, if your faith is strong, a bit of ribbing (taste aside) shouldn't affect it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, even as an atheist, it used to bother a bit. Couldn't care less these days. All religions are full of charlatans, abusers and wrong uns, so they absolutely should be up for ridicule.

I'm fairly sure nobody knows for sure what the true message of Christ is, given that all the old religions have been twisted over millennia... but whatever it is, I doubt that the likes of Brand are honest about their faith.

And at least, if your faith is strong, a bit of ribbing (taste aside) shouldn't affect it.

I dreamed I stood upon a hill, and, lo!
The godly multitudes walked to and fro
Beneath, in Sabbath garments fitly clad,
With pious mien, appropriately sad,
While all the church bells made a solemn din --
A fire-alarm to those who lived in sin.
Then saw I gazing thoughtfully below,
With tranquil face, upon that holy show
A tall, spare figure in a robe of white,
Whose eyes diffused a melancholy light.
"God keep you, stranger," I exclaimed. "You are
No doubt (your habit shows it) from afar;
And yet I entertain the hope that you,
Like these good people, are a Christian too."
He raised his eyes and with a look so stern
It made me with a thousand blushes burn
Replied -- his manner with disdain was spiced:
"What! I a Christian? No, indeed! I'm Christ."
--Ambrose Bierce

 

[Dogsauce]

Right, but you posted...



...which looks as if you have something important to say about why RB is currently being shamed. It looks as if you think it's not only his behaviour that has led him to this. As if (((someone))) is 'behind it', as you put it.

So, who? And why?.

The joos, obvs. Always the joos with this lot.

 

[Orang Utan]

I only have issues with the Catholic Church as an institution. No issues with those who have faith within it, unless they’re those who take advantage of their power structures to abuse other human beings.

 

[xenon]

Has he still not been nicked?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

hmm not sure he a catholic more a more again evangelistic twat

It looks like he's trying to get in with everyone. He's taking a pinch of this and a bit of that. He's chumming up to the catholics by praying the rosary every day, keeping in the the Baptists by getting baptised, keeping in the Born Again crowd by going on about being reborn, but also carrying on with his yoga and buddhism. He's keeping his options very much open.

 

[PTK]

I have a relative who is a Roman Catholic priest and another who is a nun, and I know that it is unfair to suggest that every priest and nun is an abuser. On the other hand, as an organisation the Roman Catholic Church is guilty of covering up, and enabling, abusive activity. I would suggest that misbehaviour on the part of the hierarchy is facilitated by the organisational structure. It seems to me that any organisation in which officials are appointed rather than elected is less susceptible to oversight and control.

It seems to me that there is a contradiction between the Christian concept of forgiveness and the legal system. You cannot claim to forgive someone and report them to the police.

 

[Orang Utan]

You cannot claim to forgive someone and report them to the police.

I don't see why not?

 

[PTK]

It looks like he's trying to get in with everyone. He's taking a pinch of this and a bit of that. He's chumming up to the catholics by praying the rosary every day, keeping in the the Baptists by getting baptised, keeping in the Born Again crowd by going on about being reborn, but also carrying on with his yoga and buddhism. He's keeping his options very much open.

Baptism is not something unique to Baptists.

 

[two sheds]

I don't see why not?

yeh you could report them to the police and then forgive them

 

[Silas Loom]

Baptism is not something unique to Baptists.

Adult baptism is, isn’t it?

 

[PTK]

I don't see why not?

In the same way that you cannot tell someone that you forgive a monetary debt, and then take the person to the small claims court.