Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[story]

£16 million is a lot to me. What does he need it for?

Perhaps, alongside his long laid plan to cultivate a rapt audience that would never question him, he was also planning ahead for the possibility of needing a team of briefs to fight his corner.

 

[Funky_monks]

Its interesting - I must confess that prior to this incident, I spent such a miniscule part of my brain's run time on the subject of Russel Brand, that it was nonexistent. I'd read his book (y wook) way back when it came out....2006-7 maybe?, and thought it was OKish and at best, a not badly written look at addiction. Thought no more about it at all since then. Instantly forgettable.

What gets me about this thread is that there were so many things that he'd done, and each time I read it, there's a new one.
Oh yeah, that time he groped that reporter,
Oh yeah, the Andrew Sachs daughter thing,
Oh, that Lilly Allen Thing,
That incident that Editor posted up, where he flashed somebody.....

Oh, so that's who Katherine Ryan was going on about (he hadn't even registered in my brain as "comedian" by then so I thought it must be Jimmy Carr or something). I just didn't really think about him by then as he says nothing to me about my life (thanks, odd Manchester thread diversion).

How the fuck do people on the wider internet defending him manage to see all those things and think "nah, its a conspiracy to silence him by shadowy forces unknown". Baffling

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Srsly?
Sometimes yunno Magnus McGinty you seem to be seeking the insult and missing the point.

Of course men should be discussing these issues.

But it seems to be a bit tricky for men (nam obvs) to lay off the squabbling and point scoring, which - on a thread like this - isn't dissimilar to a self-aggrandising chap pulling out his old chap and saying "have a look at this! Innit big and clever! Much biggerer and cleverer than yours!"

Fair enough, I agree with that.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

do the right thing and no one will say you no

It’s also confused by the fact that on a bulletin board posters’ sex isn’t always obvious. In some cases folk have said and some know others IRL etc. story is a good example actually. I assume they’re female based on various thing but it is an assumption. I remember for many years they posted ambiguously on this point so I still couldn’t definitely say either way for definite.

 

[story]

Fair enough, I agree with that.

Well I'm glad that's settled then!

But really it might be worth having a look at why your first response to a point you now accept was defensive and a little combative.

Might that reflexive reaction be part of the larger problem?

The patriarchy makes men feel put upon and set upon by expectations. Fight or fuck. Have, own, show to other men, to demonstrate self worth: "high value men" is a trope in the manosphere, that doesn't come from nowhere. It's been grabbed and built on because men recognise what that need/compulsion feels like, deeply.

When there's underlying conflict with the perceived need to comply with patriarchal patterns we end up with combative predatory overcompensation. RB is apparently an extreme example of this but there are a billion other ways the pattern is expressed.

The patriarchy doesn't happen to other people. It happens to all of us.

 

[bimble]

do the right thing and no one will say you no

What is this . Does it mean something?

 

[Epona]

It's also not about knowing what gender other posters are and adjusting your posts accordingly. That's actually kind of misogynist in of itself.
It's more to do with if you know you are male, then perhaps govern your own reaction according to the topic, eg. if the topic is about sexual assualt or rape of women, or about the patriarchy, or about misogyny - rather than adjust it based on what you think someone else's gender is when you are responding to them.

 

[Pickman's model]

What is this . Does it mean something?

Do you really want to go down this path?

 

[two sheds]

Are we really at the stage where we're answering a question with a question?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Well I'm glad that's settled then!

But really it might be worth having a look at why your first response to a point you now accept was defensive and a little combative.

Might that reflexive reaction be part of the larger problem?

The patriarchy makes men feel put upon and set upon by expectations. Fight or fuck. Have, own, show to other men, to demonstrate self worth: "high value men" is a trope in the manosphere, that doesn't come from nowhere. It's been grabbed and built on because men recognise what that need/compulsion
feels like, deeply.

When there's underlying conflict with the perceived need to comply with patriarchal patterns we end up with combative predatory overcompensation. RB is apparently an extreme example of this but there are a billion other ways the pattern is expressed.

The patriarchy doesn't happen to other people. It happens to all of us.

I was confused by what seems like mixed messages. I saw a binary between don’t talk over women but do talk about it. And as I explained in my previous post, I’m not always sure who is who. Is Gosub male, female? What about emanymton (Fuck, that is hard to type)? Plenty of others I haven’t a clue about.

 

[story]

It’s also confused by the fact that on a bulletin board posters’ sex isn’t always obvious. In some cases folk have said and some know others IRL etc. story is a good example actually. I assume they’re female based on various thing but it is an assumption. I remember for many years they posted ambiguously on this point so I still couldn’t definitely say either way for definite.

I do that deliberately. I came on here many years before the gender discussion started and I was very aware that this was an opportunity to be genderless. I wanted my words and thoughts to be the most important or governing factor in my online encounters here, not my gender.

It's been really interesting, over the years, to observe how posters respond to me based on their assumptions. Butchersapron, for instance, seemed to assume I was a wet soggy bloke, unworthy of his engagement. If he thought I was a woman, he'd have engaged with me more generously. I had a long time to watch and learn from his style of response to others in order to draw this conclusion.

Some people have asked me directly, some have said they don't know and prefer it that way. I suspect some posters move between thinking I'm a woman and then changing their mind. People on here who do know have always done me the courtesy of preserving the ambiguity.

It's been really liberating.

 

[story]

It's also not about knowing what gender other posters are and adjusting your posts accordingly. That's actually kind of misogynist in of itself.
It's more to do with if you know you are male, then perhaps govern your own reaction according to the topic, eg. if the topic is about sexual assualt or rape of women, or about the patriarchy, or about misogyny - rather than adjust it based on what you think someone else's gender is when you are responding to them.

Yeah, this for sure

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's also not about knowing what gender other posters are and adjusting your posts accordingly. That's actually kind of misogynist in of itself.
It's more to do with if you know you are male, then perhaps govern your own reaction according to the topic, eg. if the topic is about sexual assualt or rape of women, or about the patriarchy, or about misogyny - rather than adjust it based on what you think someone else's gender is when you are responding to them.

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

 

[Epona]

As I said before, it isn't about what gender the other poster is. It's about if it's about misogyny and you're a bloke, do more listening or asking than telling or instructing or coming up with a solution or offering to go crack some heads.

 

[story]

I was confused by what seems like mixed messages. I saw a binary between don’t talk over women but do talk about it. And as I explained in my previous post, I’m not always sure who is who. Is Gosub male, female? What about emanymton (Fuck, that is hard to type)? Plenty of others I haven’t a clue about.

Why does not knowing someone's gender affect the way you receive or perceive their contribution? In what ways?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I do that deliberately. I came on here many years before the gender discussion started and I was very aware that this was an opportunity to be genderless. I wanted my words and thoughts to be the most important or governing factor in my online encounters here, not my gender.

It's been really interesting, over the years, to observe how posters respond to me based on their assumptions. Butchersapron, for instance, seemed to assume I was a wet soggy bloke, unworthy of his engagement. If he thought I was a woman, he'd have engaged with me more generously. I had a long time to watch and learn from his style of response to others in order to draw this conclusion.

Some people have asked me directly, some have said they don't know and prefer it that way. I suspect some posters move between thinking I'm a woman and then changing their mind. People on here who do know have always done me the courtesy of preserving the ambiguity.

It's been really liberating.

Female then.

 

[Epona]

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

Fuck off you little prick

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why does not knowing someone's gender affect the way you receive or perceive their contribution? In what ways?

It isn’t me making stipulations about it.

 

[story]

Female then.

Sure, why not.

 

[two sheds]

I do that deliberately. I came on here many years before the gender discussion started and I was very aware that this was an opportunity to be genderless. I wanted my words and thoughts to be the most important or governing factor in my online encounters here, not my gender.

It's been really interesting, over the years, to observe how posters respond to me based on their assumptions. Butchersapron, for instance, seemed to assume I was a wet soggy bloke, unworthy of his engagement. If he thought I was a woman, he'd have engaged with me more generously. I had a long time to watch and learn from his style of response to others in order to draw this conclusion.

Some people have asked me directly, some have said they don't know and prefer it that way. I suspect some posters move between thinking I'm a woman and then changing their mind. People on here who do know have always done me the courtesy of preserving the ambiguity.

It's been really liberating.

One reason I don't look at the mugshots thread is because I quite like not knowing what people look like or (often) what sex they are.

 

[gosub]

If the Government want to have the power to cut the revenue streams of people accused of serious offences then they should legislate to do so surely, not just do it off the cuff. I don't think that's what happened here, I agree with the analysis that's it's probably just an over eager MP but on the broader point then no, the government shouldn't do this unless they have passed a law enabling them to.

I sincerely hope Brand gets kicked off every platform he tries to spout his shit from but it would still be a worrying state of affairs if the government decided they had the power to trash people's careers based on allegations without any due process or even legislation to enable it. That's a dictatorship, not the (piss weak) democracy we supposedly live under.

Just caught up with yesterday's media show The Media Show - The Russell Brand allegations - BBC Sounds

They had the Minister for media on it. Asked directly if it was OK that youtube had demonetization him based on allegations that he denied. Said that was a matter for youtube. So do hope the Chair of the Committee was being over eager cos that's a pretty shitty Pat&Mick otherwise. Be intresting if it comes up at their next meeting.

 

[story]

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

Ignorant or trolling?

 

[Sasaferrato]

I really which they'd stop using the term 'pest'. They're potential rapists and sexual assaulters, not some annoying insect at your picnic...

Quite.

 

[Pickman's model]

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

Sometimes you shoot yourself in both feet.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

C’mon J ffs

 

[editor]

You’re non binary. That means you fall into the male camp then? Or do you choose based on circumstances?

Seriously, shut the fuck up.

 

[weltweit]

When I joined Urban I decided at first to try to remain ungendered and for a while it seemed a good experiment, I forget what finished the disguise but after a while I was less bothered by it.

 

[bimble]

Do you really want to go down this path?

eh?
I was asking if your words were intended to mean something, cos if they meant something I didn't understand them.

You wrote "Do the right thing and nobody will say you no".
In the middle of a conversation about how sometimes, in some contexts, men's pointless domineering willy waving posts can come across as more than usually shit.

As you're the most prolific contributor to the thread i wondered what if anything you meant by it.

 

[Epona]

The poster in question has met me IRL, although it was a while ago he knows full well what my "biological" gender is and is just being a transphobic arse at this point.
I've had 50+ years of the way some of the worst men treat women, that doesn't change just because I don't fully identify with being female and am not feminine looking/dressing.
There's just added fucking transphobia on top of it, including some men who want to show you you're a woman, or who think a good seeing to will sort you out.

Just NO to that bullshit, and I will not sit quietly and have people say things like that to me on here.

 

[story]

I was confused by what seems like mixed messages. I saw a binary between don’t talk over women but do talk about it. And as I explained in my previous post, I’m not always sure who is who. Is Gosub male, female? What about emanymton (Fuck, that is hard to type)? Plenty of others I haven’t a clue about.

Don't talk over women but do talk about it isn't an either or binary.
Men can talk about this shit without talking over women.