Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[Raheem]

Also strange that he'd say "they were absolutely always consensual" but then go on to add "I was always transparent about that then, almost too transparent ..." that sounds like an admission of something - not to back up that they were all consensual.

Missing word sweepstakes...I'd go for "technically".

 

[BigMoaner]

Missing word sweepstakes...I'd go for "technically".

“mostly”

 

[WhyLikeThis]

I just searched “Russell Brand” on Twitter and it’s really brought out a wide selection of freaks and fuckwits.

 

[editor]

Despite your attempts to reposition yourself as a pillar of the community i.e. a teacher, you've mentioned on these boards that you've paid for sex with a woman* who was probably trafficked (and, seemingly, a drug addict - track marks on her arms) such that any purported consent was vitiated^, so I'm not sure you're in any position to be taking the moral high ground.

* you described her a a "girl" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't underage.

^ sex without consent being rape.

Wait: so you're the 'new' poster who's been here for just six months and you're dredging up up posts from sixteen years ago to attack posters?

There's not enough animated Spock eyebrows in my GIF collection for that.

 

[PTK]

I looked back over my old posts and found I'd made a reference to something I'd simce forgotten. He made a prank call making a false report to a rape crisis line. I remember at the time of Sachsgate being surprised that this was the smaller story.

What a disgrace. It is indeed amazing that a huge fuss was not made about this/

 

[Tones]

Wait: so you're the 'new' poster who's been here for just six months and you're dredging up up posts from sixteen years ago to attack posters?

There's not enough animated Spock eyebrows in my GIF collection for that.

Oh, so your issue is who I am, rather than the fact that he's effectively admitted to sex without consent? Because he's a part of the furniture, here?

That's rape culture writ large.

Have a think on that.

 

[krtek a houby]

How come everyone and their dog knows what Brand has been banging on about for years but somehow he also been silenced all these years?

Urban is at war with Brand. Urban has always been at war with Brand.

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh, so your issue is who I am, rather than the fact that he's effectively admitted to sex without consent? Because he's a part of the furniture, here?

That's rape culture writ large.

Have a think on that.

Since you're all about the truth, who are you?

 

[Ax^]

Oh, so your issue is who I am, rather than the fact that he's effectively admitted to sex without consent? Because he's a part of the furniture, here?

That's rape culture writ large.

Have a think on that.

don't hide behind a sock puppet if you know the boards, cannot think of evil forces who will stop
your message

or maybe have a direct point to make

 

[editor]

Oh, so your issue is who I am, rather than the fact that he's effectively admitted to sex without consent? Because he's a part of the furniture, here?

That's rape culture writ large.

Have a think on that.

And off you fuck. Permanently. The discussion is about Russell Brand and not about some cowardly nameless returner digging up 16 year old beef.

 

[krtek a houby]

And off you fuck. Permanently. The discussion is about Russell Brand and not about some cowardly nameless returner digging up 16 year old beef.

Could it have been the vile YoursTruly who worked in the "entertainment business" and was suspected to be a banned returner even in 2007?

Anyway. This topic has gotten all beefy, whataboutery, point scoringly painful and unpleasant real fast.

Weren't we just saying how urban has changed for the better, a few pages ago?

 

[maomao]

Despite your attempts to reposition yourself as a pillar of the community i.e. a teacher, you've mentioned on these boards that you've paid for sex with a woman* who was probably trafficked (and, seemingly, a drug addict - track marks on her arms) such that any purported consent was vitiated^, so I'm not sure you're in any position to be taking the moral high ground.

* you described her a a "girl" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't underage.

^ sex without consent being rape.

You're right and I have to live with myself. I've made more honest posts on that topic in the past but this thread's not about me. What you're probably even more right about is that trying to be a responsible and productive member of my community is incompatible with maintaining a twenty year record of my indiscretions online.

I apologise to anyone I embarrassed by digging up the old thread. It was intended as a tool for reflection (and yes, I regularly reflect on my own behaviour, sometimes too often) rather than an attack on anyone.

 

[kenny g]

How will they connect your report (which tbf is hearsay) to hers if she does make a report though?

I accept it may have been done with the best of intentions, but it's at best pointless, and at worst breaking a confidence about something said to you long ago.

If she reports it, she can say in her report "I was going out with Bigmoaner at the time and he can corroborate", in which case you might potentially be useful (assuming it's not dismissed as hearsay). But it should come from her, not you.

They will have, or at least should have, recorded his report on an intelligence database. The report will have been graded to take account of the fact it was not first hand intelligence. If Bigmoaners associate comes forward of her own volition it will be useful corroboration of her account. The fact he has had no recent contact with her actually makes his report less challengeable.

It is hearsay but hearsay evidence is permissible in many circumstances. In any case, this would be an intelligence report rather than evidence. It helps the investigator build a picture and bolster direct evidence.

 

[Red Cat]

Wow, well that got nasty.

Perhaps the idea of progress is a bit of a fantasy.

 

[Rob Ray]

The deep state must be pretty fucking rubbish tbh when all you have to do is fart online and it will hit some seething mass of conspiracy bollocks

On the other hand it must be quite prescient to have started up a sham investigation four years ago aimed at silencing a conspiracy theorist who's getting too close to the truth - well in advance of Covid even happening.

 

[existentialist]

If wrong 'uns, and abusive men in particular, came with a useful sign on them, that any discerning right thinking person could spot a mile off, that'd be great wouldn't it. But they really don't.

I think there often ARE signs, but we've been rather too well-conditioned to avoid paying them much attention. Probably because, as we see so regularly, wrong'unness is tacitly excused by our culture, so nobody wants to be the first person to say "that Russell Brand - he's a nasty bit of work". Especially if the person in question is known to be lawyer-happy, as Brand appeared to be, and Savile certainly was.

 

[klang]

I think there often ARE signs, but we've been rather too well-conditioned to avoid paying them much attention. Probably because, as we see so regularly, wrong'unness is tacitly excused by our culture, so nobody wants to be the first person to say "that Russell Brand - he's a nasty bit of work". Especially if the person in question is known to be lawyer-happy, as Brand appeared to be, and Savile certainly was.

Often there are no signs.
Abuse doesn't start and end with lawyers and breaking the law, it starts with a power inbalance which leads to a sense of entitlement. To spot and call out a wrong un means to re-assess boundries and to re-draw the line as to what we as a society deem acceptable.
Most abuse doesn't happen in the public eye but behind closed doors, and to give victims agency to speak up for themselves means to take power away from the more privileged in society, so we have a very long way to go on that.

I hope that by hopefully more high profile cases hitting the headlines, the more this power imbalance will see slight shifts into a direction where victims of abuse will feel more comfortable to come forward, as society as a whole will start to question power, entitlement and exploitatation, what their implications are, and where to draw the line.

 

[Red Cat]

I think anyone who has been bullied is aware of the dynamics around abuse and other aggressive behaviour, on the whole, onlookers do nothing. This isn't so different to the 'ordinary' bullying that takes place in workplaces and any other spaces where there are groups.

 

[Spymaster]

Yep. I’ve never liked him. An ex-girlfriend went to his show and met him. To me, he always came across as a stage School attention seeking gobshite. I’ve not paid him much attention except when it comes up on discussions on here.

Same here. I also think most people have probably raised an eyebrow or two at his output over the years, constant references to shagging; the number of conquests, etc. If you had a friend like that irl, you'd tell him to shut the fuck up or maybe even fuck him off. You certainly wouldn't want him around your daughter or sister.

It's not particularly percipient to acknowledge that we all overlook some behaviours in people who we admire in other areas. In Brand's case regarding previous threads on here he's been given a pass on his grubby behaviour because he wrote well and had leftist leanings. They were quite a while ago too and the landscape has changed dramatically in the last 10 years regarding sexual impropriety. Nobody would forgive the allegations that have surfaced recently but equally, I'm sure they don't come as a monumental surprise to many.

 

[existentialist]

They will have, or at least should have, recorded his report on an intelligence database. The report will have been graded to take account of the fact it was not first hand intelligence. If Bigmoaners associate comes forward of her own volition it will be useful corroboration of her account. The fact he has had no recent contact with her actually makes his report less challengeable.

It is hearsay but hearsay evidence is permissible in many circumstances. In any case, this would be an intelligence report rather than evidence. It helps the investigator build a picture and bolster direct evidence.

When I went to the police with my allegations (not about Russell Brand), they wanted to know about anyone I might have mentioned the offences to in the past, and DEFINITELY followed up on them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Same here. I also think most people have probably raised an eyebrow or two at his output over the years, constant references to shagging; the number of conquests, etc. If you had a friend like that irl, you'd tell him to shut the fuck up or maybe even fuck him off. You certainly wouldn't want him around your daughter or sister.

It's not particularly percipient to acknowledge that we all overlook some behaviours in people who we admire in other areas. In Brand's case regarding previous threads on here he's been given a pass on his grubby behaviour because he wrote well and had leftist leanings. they were quite a while ago too and the landscape has changed dramatically in the last 10 years regarding sexual impropriety. Nobody would forgive the allegations that have surfaced recently but equally, I'm sure they don't come as a monumental surprise to many.

If the landscape really had changed markedly regarding sexual impropriety in the last decade we wouldn't find a queue of cops proceeding through the cj system, many charged with acts committed in the last few years. We'd see the police deal with reports of rape and sexual assault professionally, and a significantly higher charging and conviction rate for these crimes. It's an illusion that things have changed dramatically, as the threads on feminism here report that a vast amount of work remains to be done. When many young men listen to creeps like tate can we really say we're in a good place?

 

[Spymaster]

If the landscape really had changed markedly regarding sexual impropriety in the last decade we wouldn't find a queue of cops proceeding through the cj system, many charged with acts committed in the last few years. We'd see the police deal with reports of rape and sexual assault professionally, and a significantly higher charging and conviction rate for these crimes. It's an illusion that things have changed dramatically, as the threads on feminism here report that a vast amount of work remains to be done. When many young men listen to creeps like tate can we really say we're in a good place?

I’m talking about the landscape of attitudes towards it rather than the landscape of offending.

 

[CNT36]

If the landscape really had changed markedly regarding sexual impropriety in the last decade we wouldn't find a queue of cops proceeding through the cj system, many charged with acts committed in the last few years. We'd see the police deal with reports of rape and sexual assault professionally, and a significantly higher charging and conviction rate for these crimes. It's an illusion that things have changed dramatically, as the threads on feminism here report that a vast amount of work remains to be done. When many young men listen to creeps like tate can we really say we're in a good place?

Not to say anythinga better but even to have queues of cops proceeding through the criminal justice system is a small improvement.

 

[maomao]

When many young men listen to creeps like tate can we really say we're in a good place?

A polarisation rather than an improvement maybe.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not to say anythinga better but even to have queues of cops proceeding through the criminal justice system is a small improvement.

It is a temporary aberration and normal service will be resumed shortly

 

[emanymton]

When I went to the police with my allegations (not about Russell Brand), they wanted to know about anyone I might have mentioned the offences to in the past, and DEFINITELY followed up on them.

My understanding was that for historic cases that was the main source of evidence available.

 

[Mumbles274]

If you had a friend like that irl, you'd tell him to shut the fuck up or maybe even fuck him off. You certainly wouldn't want him around your daughter or sister.

I used to have a friend like that. Used to. Stopped that friendship when he went on a one man attempt to "complete tinder"

These are also the same sorts of bloke that sees their daughters as possessions to protect from men!! Wonder why!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I mean there's definitely things I've said and done 20 years ago that I would be very critical of now in terms of attitudes, speech and behaviour.

Same, and I’d say there isn’t a single soul that this doesn’t apply to.

 

[High Voltage]

Same, and I’d say there isn’t a single soul that this doesn’t apply to.

If you’re the same person now that you were 10 or even worse 20 years ago you’ve wasted a lot of time. I know for a fact that I feel I’m a more evolved person

 

[LeytonCatLady]

These are also the same sorts of bloke that sees their daughters as possessions to protect from men!! Wonder why!

When I first moved to London at 16, I got to know people mostly by attending open mic nights. One of them was a 30-year-old bloke who clocked me as a young girl new in town and kept saying "Anyone gives you hassle, let me know and I'll sort them out." That annoyed me as I could look after myself, but didn't complain as he obviously had Good Intentions. But it got to the point where he'd confront any lads or blokes he saw me interacting with (up to and including "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING TO THIS GIRL?!") and I had to pull him up about that, explaining that I was/am a musician and he was interfering with my networking. I told him if I needed help I'd let him know, but until then please let me handle things myself. He got a bit huffy and said "Well I'm only trying to protect you!" I told him I didn't need protecting, I'd moved here from Birmingham under my own steam and I just wanted him to treat me the same as his male friends.

It got to the point where if I was in the pub with any other male friends or acquaintances or bandmates he didn't know and he was going to come later, I felt the need to text him in advance "If you turn up, I'm sitting with so-and-so." so he wouldn't get the wrong end of the stick and start having a go at them (something I shouldn't have had to do). That seemed to work, although even then he'd reply "Don't know them. Don't let them take the piss." He seemed obsessed with the idea that every male I talked to was up to something, and I found it really othering. Another annoying habit of his was when I showed him my lyrics and he would always assume they were about "a boy you like" when I wasn't interested in anybody, and they weren't even love songs! Even at 16, I was 5'7 with short spiky crazy coloured hair and a lip ring and blatantly not into commercial chart music, so I didn't get why he was ignoring that about me and trying to condense me into a "teenage girl" stereotype. I asked him if he'd assume that about a male songwriter, and got no satisfactory reply.

The last straw with this former friend was when my brother visited and he gave him a load of abuse in the pub, calling him pervy and other things I won't repeat here (I was 18 by then and my brother 16, although he looked older than he was and this idiot, as usual, jumped to conclusions). That got me in the shit with my family for a while because I was made to feel responsible for this idiot's bad behaviour. Yes, I accept I should have ended the friendship sooner but I thought I could change the way he viewed women (and because he was very PC generally and a Labour voter and stuff, I didn't think he was intentionally sexist, just coming across that way with his chivalry and patronising protectiveness).

Anyway, a few years after that I heard he was actually prosecuted for stalking an ex after she broke up with him and moved away. Apparently he found her new address and sent her threatening text messages, so I think that ties in with what you're saying about overprotective men seeing women as their property. The only person I needed protecting from was him!