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Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

He seemed to be on the verge of being a huge star around 2010, Hollywood movies and the marriage to Katy Perry. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened there. Why he never quite made it in America.
 
Red Cat said:
The drinking age is 21 in many US states due to health concerns in drinking under 21 yrs, it's an acknowledgement that the brain is still developing and vulnerable to damage.
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Not really. In the early 1980s there was a desire to reduce road accidents, and younger drivers were viewed as being less trustworthy. For this reason the federal government wanted states to raise the age where one could legally drink to 21. (You'd think they'd address the driving issue first, but hey-ho.) When some were reluctant, they were threatened with having their highway budget cut -- the federal government subsidises this sort of thing. So they all caved in.
 
He seems to have managed to rope in people, smart people, like Herring and Ross to enable this by them laughing along with him. A total psychopath. Such similarities with Saville. How could you sit in that audience and roar with laughter as someone makes jokes about rape?
 
story said:
ETA
I‘d add that the alleged story about him cramming his dick down her throat “because he wanted to see her mascara run” was also a red flag. Getting kicks from seeing a woman’s mascara running during oral sex is a pretty common kink. Kink must always always always be safe sane and consensual. If it’s not, it’s assault. If he did that, it implies he’s accustomed to taking what he wants without consent.
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What the actual...

I'd never even heard of that kind of thing before this. And yet you're saying it's a pretty common kink?!? Really?
 
If you google that phrase, as I just did, without quotes, a number of hits will come up that will show that this is indeed a thing. What a time to be alive.
 
paul mckenna said:
Little thought experiment here:

You're a guy who just turned 16. The year is 1965. You idolise Blondy and fancy Debby Harry (30 years old). You blag tickets to see her/them in concert. She stops the limousine and beckons you inside. You have a wild night and exchange numbers

Are you:
- traumatised
- exhilarated

Your parents find out and explain the power dynamics at play and that you are in shock and something awful just happened. She calls again.

Do you:
- go to the authorities and file a complaint
- sprint to her location

---

Ask this to 100 guys and 90%+ would say yes. Ask this to 100 women (with perhaps Jim Morrison instead), a lower but still high proportion would also say yes
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Technically, Debbie Harry always expected you to call her.
 
ouirdeaux said:
Not really. In the early 1980s there was a desire to reduce road accidents, and younger drivers were viewed as being less trustworthy. For this reason the federal government wanted states to raise the age where one could legally drink to 21. (You'd think they'd address the driving issue first, but hey-ho.) When some were reluctant, they were threatened with having their highway budget cut -- the federal government subsidises this sort of thing. So they all caved in.
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Makes sense - driving is sacrosanct for some reason!
 
Chz said:
That's purely arbitrary. Look at the Americans where you're an adult at 18, can be sent off to war, get a mortgage, etc. But you can't drink until you're 21.
(I'm not promoting that, as it's clearly ridiculous, but just pointing out "Oh, you're an adult" has no real legal meaning. You could legislate anything the population will bear.)
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Britain is the same, can join the army at 16, drink vote etc at 18...why those bastard recruiters hang around school gates
 
ouirdeaux said:
Not really. In the early 1980s there was a desire to reduce road accidents, and younger drivers were viewed as being less trustworthy. For this reason the federal government wanted states to raise the age where one could legally drink to 21. (You'd think they'd address the driving issue first, but hey-ho.) When some were reluctant, they were threatened with having their highway budget cut -- the federal government subsidises this sort of thing. So they all caved in.
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Yes road accidents too, another public health intervention. It’s a linked issue.
 
Update from the BBC:

Met Police confirms report of alleged sexual assault from 2003​

We've just received an update from London's Metropolitan Police.
A spokesperson for the Met said: “We are aware of reporting by The Sunday Times and Channel 4's Dispatches about allegations of sexual offences.
“On Sunday, 17 September, the Met received a report of a sexual assault which was alleged to have taken place in Soho in central London in 2003. Officers are in contact with the woman and will be providing her with support.
“We first spoke with The Sunday Times on Saturday, 16 September and have since made further approaches to The Sunday Times and Channel 4 to ensure that anyone who believes they have been the victim of a sexual offence is aware of how to report this to the police.
“We continue to encourage anyone who believes they may have been a victim of a sexual offence, no matter how long ago it was, to contact us.”
 
And this is a very important point. I actually had someone come up to me in the pub last night insisting that it was suspicious that women had only just come forward, like it's an easy thing for a young woman - or, indeed, child - to accuse a rich and powerful and much older man and face having their lives/privacy/careers ruined:

Alleged victims do not have faith in police, journalist says​

Women choosing to report allegations of rape and sexual assault to journalists rather than the police is evidence of the lack of trust many people have in the authorities, a journalist working on the Brand story has told the BBC.
Rosamud Urwin, the Sunday Times media editor, says journalists have contacted the Metropolitan Police in London about the allegations about Brand.
Speaking to the BBC earlier, Urwin says there have been many reports in recent months of authorities failing victims who come forward, which makes people less likely to report alleged assaults to police.
"We've had a lot of stories about why women don't have faith in the criminal justice system to get justice, and within that the police."
She adds there are many reasons people don't want to report crimes and they "find coming to the media, as hard as it is, a preferable option".
 
paul mckenna said:
Little thought experiment here:

You're a guy who just turned 16. The year is 1965. You idolise Blondy and fancy Debby Harry (30 years old). You blag tickets to see her/them in concert. She stops the limousine and beckons you inside. You have a wild night and exchange numbers

Are you:
- traumatised
- exhilarated

Your parents find out and explain the power dynamics at play and that you are in shock and something awful just happened. She calls again.

Do you:
- go to the authorities and file a complaint
- sprint to her location

---

Ask this to 100 guys and 90%+ would say yes. Ask this to 100 women (with perhaps Jim Morrison instead), a lower but still high proportion would also say yes
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Just fuxk off you creepy prick
 
editor said:
And this is a very important point. I actually had someone come up to me in the pub last night insisting that it was suspicious that women had only just come forward, like it's an easy thing for a young woman - or, indeed, child - to accuse a rich and powerful and much older man and face having their lives/privacy/careers ruined:

Alleged victims do not have faith in police, journalist says​

Women choosing to report allegations of rape and sexual assault to journalists rather than the police is evidence of the lack of trust many people have in the authorities, a journalist working on the Brand story has told the BBC.
Rosamud Urwin, the Sunday Times media editor, says journalists have contacted the Metropolitan Police in London about the allegations about Brand.
Speaking to the BBC earlier, Urwin says there have been many reports in recent months of authorities failing victims who come forward, which makes people less likely to report alleged assaults to police.
"We've had a lot of stories about why women don't have faith in the criminal justice system to get justice, and within that the police."
She adds there are many reasons people don't want to report crimes and they "find coming to the media, as hard as it is, a preferable option".
Click to expand...

TBF I really wish journalists would not say things like that - for a start the media are not interested in investigating allegations of rape unless it is deemed newsworthy (and so financially worth investigating), so suggesting the media is an alternate way of reporting rape for every victim - or indeed the vast majority of victims - is just wrong.

Secondly the solution to improving the quality of rape investigations and outcomes at court is to hold the police, CPS, government and Parliaments feet to the fire until it gets better (and it absolutely needs to) and also to educate the public into what rape actually is (ie: not just when some horror snatches a woman off the street, or breaks into her home).
 
agricola said:
TBF I really wish journalists would not say things like that - for a start the media are not interested in investigating allegations of rape unless it is deemed newsworthy (and so financially worth investigating), so suggesting the media is an alternate way of reporting rape for every victim - or indeed the vast majority of victims - is just wrong.
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Sure but the fact remains that many, many women will not report rape/sexual assault to the police for various reasons. I know a lot of women* who've been raped or sexually assaulted and none of them has reported it to the police.

*Friends, people I know. I suspect the numbers are sadly not unusual.

agricola said:
Secondly the solution to improving the quality of rape investigations and outcomes at court is to hold the police, CPS, government and Parliaments feet to the fire until it gets better (and it absolutely needs to) and also to educate the public into what rape actually is (ie: not just when some horror snatches a woman off the street, or breaks into her home).
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Of course but how? I mean how to hold feet to the fire? How to educate the public? I mean Urban's pretty switched on but there are still some posters with pretty shocking attitudes on here.
 
Sue said:
Sure but the fact remains that many, many women will not report rape/sexual assault to the police for various reasons. I know a lot of women* who've been raped or sexually assaulted and none of them has reported it to the police.

*Friends, people I know. I suspect the numbers are sadly not unusual.


Of course but how? I mean how to hold feet to the fire? How to educate the public? I mean Urban's pretty switched on but there are still some posters with pretty shocking attitudes on here.
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yep. That's the depressingest bit imo.

I don't know whether the stats here (especially the one about 5% of reported rapes ever getting to court) are worse than elsewhere.
Maybe they are but a big part of the reason for that statistic must be that in these cases things will almost always boil down to 'he said she said'. And she says is not enough thats not how the system works. What can you do about that. That's the grim thing isn't it.

ETA there are specific pieces of evidence in this story, there's the text messages (proven to be from him) and there's the woman with records from the trauma treatment center, without those specific things in hand, checked and verified, i don't think they'd have even published.
That's how it is, and trying to imagine an alternative legal system where no such evidence is required to bring a case, i don't see how that'd work.
 
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agricola said:
TBF I really wish journalists would not say things like that - for a start the media are not interested in investigating allegations of rape unless it is deemed newsworthy (and so financially worth investigating), so suggesting the media is an alternate way of reporting rape for every victim - or indeed the vast majority of victims - is just wrong.

Secondly the solution to improving the quality of rape investigations and outcomes at court is to hold the police, CPS, government and Parliaments feet to the fire until it gets better (and it absolutely needs to) and also to educate the public into what rape actually is (ie: not just when some horror snatches a woman off the street, or breaks into her home).
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I considered starting a thread on alternatives to the police last week. Not just on this issue but generally after a situation where there was little other option but call them for someone's wellbeing but at the same time not trusting them to deal with it at all.

The alternative is not journalist's but I can understand people who have experienced sexual abuse not approaching them when besides whatever failings there are in the handling of the abuse there is a fair chance you'll be subjected to more of the same.
 
ouirdeaux said:
If you google that phrase, as I just did, without quotes, a number of hits will come up that will show that this is indeed a thing. What a time to be alive.
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard of it as a kink either, but TBF, if you're into something, there will always be someone else on the internet who is too (no doubt).
 
editor said:
His tour has just been cancelled :)
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Apologies if this has been covered, but I caught elsewhere that his agent has dropped him?

Which... is it reasonable to assume that it's very likely an agent would have heard about, if not actively assisted in covering up, these kind of allegations about one of their clients before they were made public? Particularly given the amount and... can't think of the right word, but over how many years the allegations span, basically.
 
Lord Camomile said:
Apologies if this has been covered, but I caught elsewhere that his agent has dropped him?

Which... is it reasonable to assume that it's very likely an agent would have heard about, if not actively assisted in covering up, these kind of allegations about one of their clients before they were made public? Particularly given the amount and... can't think of the right word, but over how many years the allegations span, basicalDid
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I didn't see the whole of Dispatches but what I saw gave the impression that could be the case.
 
Sue said:
Sure but the fact remains that many, many women will not report rape/sexual assault to the police for various reasons. I know a lot of women* who've been raped or sexually assaulted and none of them has reported it to the police.

*Friends, people I know. I suspect the numbers are sadly not unusual.
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Indeed, but Unwin appeared to be suggesting that going to the media was something that victims could do as if it was an alternate route.

Sue said:
Of course but how? I mean how to hold feet to the fire? How to educate the public? I mean Urban's pretty switched on but there are still some posters with pretty shocking attitudes on here.
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There have been loads of people inside and outside the Police and CPS raising issues of how to improve things, but they've rarely gotten any sustained improvement because the resourcing isn't enough or the people involved move on.
 
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