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Rugby Union 2014-15

bendeus said:
This has been bubbling under for a couple of years now. Some say that it could have a TdF sized lid blown off it if it all comes out :(
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Yes. All you have to do is take a glance at the build of a lot of current pros and it rapidly becomes apparent that something fishy is going on. And that's before you notice the stamina and recovery levels on display.
 
felixthecat said:
In this country yes. Iirc there are only a couple of nations who do out of competition testing. It WILL blow up at some point.
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It's really, really sad if that's the case. We could see a whole generation of sporting heroes wiped out overnight with massive repercussions for the game. We KNOW it's a problem at amateur and club level so I suppose it's not unreasonable to assume that this pervades upwards.

I've known about the rumours for a while but have tried hard not to think about it. Awful implications.
 
If Kimmage is rummaging around he'll find something if it's there. He's a really good investigative journalist. A prick mind, but a great journalist. I don't think there is a real smoking gun like a US Postal team systematically doping or a Dr Ferrari list but then again who knows?
 
Mr Retro said:
If Kimmage is rummaging around he'll find something if it's there. He's a really good investigative journalist. A prick mind, but a great journalist. I don't think there is a real smoking gun like a US Postal team systematically doping or a Dr Ferrari list but then again who knows?
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I don't see why rugby (either version) would in theory be any different to any other sport where power, speed, stamina, endurance or recovery matters. In fact, it's a relatively rare example of a sport where all of those things are very important. So there are huge gains to be made. It's already up there with the traditional "laboratory" sports (cycling, weightlifting etc) in terms of the percentage of positive tests and that's without having a testing regime even a fraction as tough or difficult to get around.

If doping is widespread that might mean that it's done in house by clubs or it might be a largely outsourced system where players are left to their own devices but know what's expected. Cycling dopers shifted from the former to the latter after the cops starting raiding teams. Both set ups have their advantages.

Agreed on Kimmage as a journalist (and he definitely has a somewhat "prickly" character). More broadly, you will generally only get serious investigation of doping in any given sport by journalists who are not specialists in that sport by trade. It's career suicide for a specialist to start poking about the doping issue in his/her own sport.
 
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bendeus said:
It's really, really sad if that's the case. We could see a whole generation of sporting heroes wiped out overnight with massive repercussions for the game. We KNOW it's a problem at amateur and club level so I suppose it's not unreasonable to assume that this pervades upwards.

I've known about the rumours for a while but have tried hard not to think about it. Awful implications.
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Judging by other sports, it seems more likely to be something that filters down from the upper echelons rather than up from the grassroots.

Does anyone know more about the Brive incident mentioned in one of the Kimmage pieces, by the way? According to the article, three years after Brive won the HEC back in the nineties, the club doctor was professionally reprimanded for administering medically unnecessary substances of various kinds to 33 players. On the face of it that sounds like the sport may already have narrowly dodged a huge scandal.
 
Hmm. I'm doing a clinic with the Welsh team doc in a couple of weeks time. I might see if I can pick his brains a bit about the testing regime and how robust it is (as well as picking his brains about a million other things, poor bloke)
 
Nigel Irritable said:
I don't see why rugby (either version) would in theory be any different to any other sport where power, speed, stamina, endurance or recovery matters. In fact, it's a relatively rare example of a sport where all of those things are very important. So there are huge gains to be made. It's already up there with the traditional "laboratory" sports (cycling, weightlifting etc) in terms of the percentage of positive tests and that's without having a testing regime even a fraction as tough or difficult to get around.

If doping is widespread that might mean that it's done in house by clubs or it might be a largely outsourced system where players are left to their own devices but know what's expected. Cycling dopers shifted from the former to the latter after the cops starting raiding teams. Both set ups have their advantages.

Agreed on Kimmage as a journalist (and he definitely has a somewhat "prickly" character). More broadly, you will generally only get serious investigation of doping in any given sport by journalists who are not specialists in that sport by trade. It's career suicide for a specialist to start poking about the doping issue in his/her own sport.
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I've been saying for ages that it is rife for abuse of exactly the same substances that were popular in cycling in the bad old days. Another vaguely interesting thing I remember reading about French club rugby was the seemingly high number of players getting pinged for marijuana. No idea if that's just me looking for things that aren't there though.
 
Interesting reading, this. Cohesion is, apparently, the most significant element that relates to success on the field. There's now an algorithm that can calculate it and, according to the algorithm, Ireland have a very good chance of winning the WC, and England fuck all.

I will, of course, have to commit hara kiri if that happens, which should sadden few on here, but still...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...137537222?nk=9e9edf541883212d265a810b20bd793b
 
Clermont well on top of Munster here after the first half. I think Tommy O'Donnell is playing poorly and we need more from him in the broken play in the second half. If Botha gets himself sin binned for going down again in the scrum we'll get badly beaten. Too much poor kicking from us.

Need to come out and score first and try to get Clermont on the back foot and the crowd behind us. Big ask, they are up for it big time and just much better than us too.
 
The following piece arguably goes a long way towards explaining Castrogiovanni's petulant and unprofessional behaviour, as well as being one of the most lucid pieces on the work of the prop/ front row I have seen in a long time. In short, Marcos Ayerza had him on toast for the time he was on the park - and Carl Haymans didn't get any change from Ayerza either. The real reason he was let go was that he was/ is no longer a nailed-on first choice in the Tigers front row and he has had some difficulty accepting that. But life goes on:-

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries...ayer-analysis-marcos-ayerza-leicester-tigers/

I rather suspect - had Toulon prevailed on Sunday - Castro would still have invaded the press conference but with a view to crowing about his immmense stature as an international prop. I for one am saddened that he has let himself down in the way he did. He was, rightly so, an iconic figure at the club and was given a very warm reception when his name was read out on sunday. He has remained a deeply embittered man for some time now and it does him no good.

Interestingly, it is being reported tonight that he has been suspended by Toulon for three days, therefore ruling him out of the return fixture - shame really, as he would have been worth ten points to us if playing. He has also had his December bonus payments cancelled and further sanctions are not ruled out. I hope my translation skills are up to the mark :( :-

http://www.blog-rct.com/toulon-sanctionne-martin-castrogiovanni-et-le-met-a-pied/

Next, one hopes to see Armitage, Delon summarily dealt with in a similar fashion by RC Toulon :mad:. His behaviour was equally appalling. Coming off the field at the end of the game he was approached by a youngster asking for his autograph to which he replied: "F*** off you little c**t" A bloke stood on the terrace nearby shouted to him "Oi, no need for that" to which the response was "And you can F*** off and all". A few ladies stood alongside the players tunnel tut-tutted at his language and they were advised also to "F*** off, you f***ing inbred c***s".
That is simply not acceptable behaviour - as Richard Cockerill was made aware two seasons ago when he had an exchange with his Saints opposite number :D.

I expect tHE EPCR will have an interesting time with this.

Toulon have written to Tigers apologising and EPCR action notwithstanding, they do not rule out further sanctions.
 
Here's the thing (to me anyway) that one pro calling another pro a cunt on whatever media is essentially a private spate something which they no doubt have said to each other a hundred times over in the privacy of the changing rooms. Cockerill's reaction that 'they will probably sit down and laugh about it' I think confirms this.

What Armitage has done is way worse. To slag of the fans, especially children in such a manner deserves sanctions of the highest order (six month suspension).
 
Yeah Delon is a bit of c**t himself! Weird as his brother seems quite sound.

Have to laugh at the talk in the Welsh press about Owen Williams going back to Llanelli. He'd be mad to do so.
 
Threshers_Flail said:
Yeah Delon is a bit of c**t himself! Weird as his brother seems quite sound.

Have to laugh at the talk in the Welsh press about Owen Williams going back to Llanelli. He'd be mad to do so.
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Yup, mad as fuck. Hard to underestimate the lure of pulling on the red jersey for a 22 year old who has dedicated his life to the sport, though. He may yet return.
 
Threshers_Flail said:
Have to laugh at the talk in the Welsh press about Owen Williams going back to Llanelli. He'd be mad to do so.
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Owen Williams is progressing at an amazing rate. Within the course of a year he has seen off Toby Flood and Ryan Lamb and, this season, Freddie Burns. That's not a bad resume so far, three England probables benched. And, now that he has a fully fit, first choice pack to work behind he can continue to improve. I am really looking forward to seeing him work with fit Tigers first choice centres - with Manu, Loamanu, Anthiny Allen and Seremia Bai to pick from, that will give him real go forward options. And, regardless of what the haters think, Cockerill commands enormous support and respect from players (well, almost all of them :)) and fans (ditto) alike. He does not shirk the hard decisions and his record over past five years supports that. In many ways, seeing M O'C go to Leinster was no bad thing albeit he did contribute to the silverware; his time at Welford Road was valuable but he had reached the end of the line. Aaron Mauger will bring an added dimension and I am excited by the informed speculation regarding new arrivals next season.

That said, he is still prone to the occasional brainfart/ missed pass but he is learning. Another two or three seasons at Tigers would, IMO, put him in pole position for Wales. The question is whether the lure of a central contract will be too much to resist. I hope so for his sake - and ours. He will not get the week in, week out exposure to first team games with Scarlets. Certainly not in the short term. And that way lies regression.

Cockers has learnt from the Ford fiasco last season - although it is unlikely he could have dissuaded George from going to Daddy - and he has already set out his stall and will do all in his power to keep Williams.
 
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BandWagon said:
I see Dylan Hartley picked up another red. Bit harsh, I thought, but he is a colossal dickhead.
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3 weeks. For an elbow to the face. With his previous (47 weeks of games missed for Northampton for, among other things, gouging, biting and calling a referee a fucking cheat).

Can I be the first to say that Hartley is a filthy cunt who doesn't belong on a rugby field, Mallinder is an apologist cunt who encourages and turns a blind eye to the thug culture he's responsible for instilling in that team and that the RFU citing panel are a bunch of cowardly, corrupt cunts whose actions are cheapening the game. Cunts
 
Just for the record this got 12 weeks. Previously unimpeachable disciplinary record. He was also about to be attacked from behind.

 
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