Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims
- Thread starter Ole
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bimble
floofy
This is not intended as any sort of a comparison it's really just an anecdote but:
I lived for a year in a small village in Jamaica. It took 10 months for me to understand that the place was full of very serious long term ongoing sexual abuse of young girls. Everyone in the place seemed to know about this, even those who were not actively complicit in it - the preachers at the several churches, the respected landowning families, local police, everyone. When I finally twigged and heard what people had to say it was all about the girls, what bad girls they were, what bad mothers they had and so on. This is something I still don't understand to be honest, but should have learnt something from. The lure of a 'free' cab ride / hot dinner / line of coke is not irrelevant though, either there or here, so maybe get rid of the hunger for that and you might have a start.
I lived for a year in a small village in Jamaica. It took 10 months for me to understand that the place was full of very serious long term ongoing sexual abuse of young girls. Everyone in the place seemed to know about this, even those who were not actively complicit in it - the preachers at the several churches, the respected landowning families, local police, everyone. When I finally twigged and heard what people had to say it was all about the girls, what bad girls they were, what bad mothers they had and so on. This is something I still don't understand to be honest, but should have learnt something from. The lure of a 'free' cab ride / hot dinner / line of coke is not irrelevant though, either there or here, so maybe get rid of the hunger for that and you might have a start.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
It does sound as if the girls in question lacked affection and that made them vulnerable to people who seemed to be paying them attention.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why do you do this - it's clearly intended as a comparison. FFS.This is not intended as any sort of a comparison it's really just an anecdote but:
I lived for a year in a small village in Jamaica. It took 10 months for me to understand that the place was full of very serious long term ongoing sexual abuse of young girls. Everyone in the place seemed to know about this, even those who were not actively complicit in it - the preachers at the several churches, the respected landowning families, local police, everyone. When I finally twigged and heard what people had to say it was all about the girls, what bad girls they were, what bad mothers they had and so on. This is something I still don't understand to be honest, but should have learnt something from. The lure of a 'free' cab ride / hot dinner / line of coke is not irrelevant though, either there or here, so maybe get rid of the hunger for that and you might have a start.
bimble
floofy
That is a part of the story for sure.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
It could be self-reinforcing, this business of being in care. I remember at school being very subtly steered away from friendship with girls from the 'Home' because they were 'too knowing, old beyond their years'. Looking back on it now, I'm horrified by the implications - both because of what that suggests about what they'd already suffered and because the social ostracism must have exacerbated their situation. Oh and the sheer bloody blind prejudice. Especially that, which I reckon is a major reason the polis never did anything.
bimble
floofy
Should I have not mentioned that ? Irrelevant because it was far away? Maybe. I don't know.
It was a personal observation of systemic child abuse going on for years under the blind eyes of 'authority'.
My intention was just to say that even though I've seen it in microcosm I still don't understand, finding out about it just completely threw me.
But you're right, I was attempting a comparison. If only so far as that
1) it's very easy for everyone in power to know what is going on and still not care, if on balance it's easier to blame the girls from 'bad homes'. And also
2) that if the girls did not need 'free' food / cab rides they may possibly have been better able to escape such exploitation.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Just stop saying things whilst saying that you're not saying them, then backing off them then defending them - that cause problems.
Edit: as does the sort of suggestion in your opening lines. Disgusting. I thought that you said that you'd had enough of that game?
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
What's your problem with the anecdote, butchers?
bimble
floofy
It's not the anecdote he's cross about it's me pretending that it was just an anecdote. And that's fair dues.
Not sure what 'disgusting' opening lines he's on about though. Unless just that, the It's just an anecdote don't mind me pretence.
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bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Jesus, I can understand why people are circumspect about posting on here when people leap down their throat for the way they frame a statement rather than for the substance of it.
Serious/stupid question: why is the race of the perpetrators even relevant?
The press are regularly focusing on it: the stories we hear about are Pakistani taxi drivers targeting white girls. Don't they also target Pakistani girls? Perhaps we don't hear about that so much because of omerta. The shame is massive. Don't white taxi drivers also target vulnerable white girls and pass them round? If we're not hearing so much about the latter, is that down to selective racism of the police? And even if it is Pakistani taxi drivers targeting white girls, why does that bother anyone more than white taxi drivers doing it?
There does seem to be a bit of primitive othering going on - but if the Rotherham victims are typical rather than just more vocal (though heaven knows it's been hard enough for them to get heard) perhaps the othering came from the perpetrators too.
Serious/stupid question: why is the race of the perpetrators even relevant?
The press are regularly focusing on it: the stories we hear about are Pakistani taxi drivers targeting white girls. Don't they also target Pakistani girls? Perhaps we don't hear about that so much because of omerta. The shame is massive. Don't white taxi drivers also target vulnerable white girls and pass them round? If we're not hearing so much about the latter, is that down to selective racism of the police? And even if it is Pakistani taxi drivers targeting white girls, why does that bother anyone more than white taxi drivers doing it?
There does seem to be a bit of primitive othering going on - but if the Rotherham victims are typical rather than just more vocal (though heaven knows it's been hard enough for them to get heard) perhaps the othering came from the perpetrators too.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You don't know - really Despite repeatedly doing it?
Yet another accidental slippage that socialists and lefties ignore things if black people are involved. Getting tiresome now anthropologist.
Maybe. I don't know.
bimble
floofy
Blimey. Not at all. That's just bonkers - total projection on your part, honestly. There's absolutely no reason why socialists or anyone else would know about what was going on there in that village and the colour of the people involved is totally irrelevant to the point I was making about possible parallels.
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BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Best not to give a fuck what he thinks. HTH.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
It's him telling you he owns the board and to bow down to his magnificence . Or otherwise face his wrath . It's your choice whether to tell him to go fuck himself or not . But you should realise he's been doing this very stuff to other posters for years on end . And most of those not in his little circle jerk do tell him. Btw that was his little gang of sycophants who went after you on that other thread. This is a continuation of that grudge. And he'll do it again, nothing surer .
I have him on ignore after being on the receiving end of it one time too many so usually can't see his howls and wails when they're aimed at me .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Not one solitary fuck .
bimble
floofy
Ye but I do give a fuck, wouldn't if it was Gromit for instance but in this case I do.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
It's your fuck to give . Not trying to tell you what to do with it .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I dunno . I think the race bit is relevant only so far as one of the reasons for inaction stated was " political correctness " . Although I think myself it's a lot more complicated than that, and it's been dumbed down to explain something a lot more complicated vis a vis community relations .
I also think these particular pedophiles were a lot more than just taxi drivers. They were primarily gangsters by the sound of things. Organised violent criminals . The outward role of taxi driver is a perfect cover for all sorts, declaring income, hours to suit, mobility and transporting the victims . While a lone taxi driver is perfectly capable of being a sexual predator these guys were able to instill real fear even in the parents of victims. And were totally brazen . I remember reading of one young victim who told her parents it was better she went with the pedo brazenly waiting outside her home at night than for them to face the consequences if she didn't. That's blatant gangsterism . So it's a stark difference between that and your average white taxi driver, unless he's a gangster too.
To me it looks like an ethnically based criminal gang or gangs, that were permitted to get away with all sorts . And the reasons for that were numerous but interlinked . But bottom line may well have been a fear of them causing mayhem if their activities were checked. Mayhem that might have seen a "community leader" or 2 make accusations of police racism as an explanation as to why young Asian men were out rioting all of a sudden. Something gangsters could organise very handily. . And I wouldn't be at all surprised..them being crims...if quite a few of them weren't grasses as well. As is almost always the case when criminal gangs of any ethnicity seem to have mass immunity for years on end .
So the reasons for police inaction may well go beyond mere class, " political correctness " , gender...seriously..it's like left and right alike want to put their particular obsessions front and centre as an explanation for EVERYTHING . And that while it certainly includes those elements ...as well as the so called " political correctness " , it boils down ultimately to a cosy set of relationships between politicians , cops and crims to maintain the status quo in Rotherham. Rotten local politics, rotten cops, rotten crims and rotten relationships between them all.
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co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Drug distribution and selling too. Minicabs seemed to all be dealing in London in the 90s when I was out and about a lot. If you were youngish and going out almost always got offered drugs - coke/e/weed - when I was in the cab. especially weekends.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
A certainty. Perfect cover for the lot .
Eta
And the alarm bells about at least some of these guys having a relationship with the cops should be going off all over the place .
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't get then the point of this:
It's suggesting that i think it's irrelevant - that it has nothing to do with the complex interplay of culture and power that it represents and has no parallels in rotherham (or cologne) - and that to correctly suggest (as you admit yourself) that your bringing it up was not just an anecdote with no impact on the story that you've been involved in on here for the last two months is yet another example of head-burying. When, in fact, i'm just trying to get you to be open about why you posted it and what it means. That defence, the one i quoted was terrible and does exactly what i suggest above. It even has the trademark i don't know get-out.
Let's get back to this country - and if we're going to use stuff like you posted, let's do it openly and without this ongoing barely submerged agenda.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
yep. awful....and one that is repeated day after day all across the country.
one that i think doesn't get talked about much is physical/emotional abuse of children. equally as damaging/grim. i once saw a man threaten to punch his kid in a petrol station for picking up a sweet. pure rage and hate in his face, grabbed her by the scruff of the neck. she was about four FFS. the look on her face will stay with me forever. terror and confusion. i rang childline afterward to see if they could do something with CCTV. christ knows what would have happened if she'd done somethign really "wrong".
i've always said that after my family, i will leave the rest of my money to NSPCC.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The problem is that - regardless of any psychiatric or psychological pathology - some people live by the principle of looking after No. 1, whatever has to be done by them to do so.
If you then factor in the possibility of the women themselves having psychiatric and/or psychological pathology - for whatever reason - it becomes merely surprising that more people aren't nicked for their inhumanity to others.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In around 2/3rds of sexual offences - contact or solicitation/pandering offences - the offender has a history of being abused. I'm not talking "invent something for your court defence" abuse, I'm talking about previous medical and social services history of being abused.
One of the only slight bright lights about Rotherham is that some of the victims are receiving trauma counselling. It should, however, be all of them. That counselling may prevent the cycle being perpetuated.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Also I guess having vulnerable victims who would make poor witnesses with a lousy relationship to the police doesnt really help. Cops are more likely to help somebody asking for police help and prepared to make statements.
If the victim withdraws statements doesnt turn up isnt in very easy to ignore/forget when you have a 100 other things to be doing its not as if cops are sitting around waiting for stuff to do.
Spread out the reports complaints over time and they get missed.
Plus a gang of pakistani men targeting young white girls.
Their was a lot of denial when the story broke on here . I bet police middle management saw this as a nightmare scenario investigate turns out to be bollocks gets crucified as leading a racist witchunt. Turns out to be real get crucified for not acting sooner.
If the victim withdraws statements doesnt turn up isnt in very easy to ignore/forget when you have a 100 other things to be doing its not as if cops are sitting around waiting for stuff to do.
Spread out the reports complaints over time and they get missed.
Plus a gang of pakistani men targeting young white girls.
Their was a lot of denial when the story broke on here . I bet police middle management saw this as a nightmare scenario investigate turns out to be bollocks gets crucified as leading a racist witchunt. Turns out to be real get crucified for not acting sooner.
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