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Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims

Its another muslim rape gang at some point it becomes obvious its a prevelant offence.
Footballers get pissed up and get involved in gang rapes
Squaddies get into drunken punch ups
Black london teenage gang members stab each other.

Some muslim men like to rape underage girls in the care system:mad:
 
I think " racists " would be a good adjective , bearing in mind their preferred choice of targets . And according to Mohammed Shafiq the attitude that white girls in general are worthless has a lot to do with these particular pedo gangs activities and needs addressing . Rightly points out too that the vast majority of sexual abuse in the uk is carried out by white men .

Child sex abuse: Sarah Champion MP says 'consider race and culture' - BBC News
 
"...Some muslim men..."

That's the thing - these characters would be considered pretty dodgy and sleazy by people in their own countries. They are indeed Muslims, but they are bad Muslims, failed in life, unobservant, sexually-frustrated, ill-educated, semi-criminal, drinking and drug-taking in violation of Muslim precepts. Their world-model is a sludgy cocktail of cherry-picked Islamic anti-kaffir attitudes, combined with archaic rural folk beliefs about women and "chastity". The cultures of the countryside and city are different - and most of the Pakistani population of England originates from Mirpur, a grim region of agricultural villages.

There's also the dislocation of being neither one thing nor the other. The mill jobs that their fathers emigrated for are long gone, and Mirpuris - lacking the Hindu community's obsession with education and talent for assimilation - find themselves adrift, the UK-born generations frequently mastering neither English nor Punjabi. Marinade with some partially-masticated race politics, so construing the abuse of these girls as payback to the racist English, and you've got yourself the toxic outlook that these men hold.
 
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"...Some muslim men..."

That's the thing - these characters would be considered pretty dodgy and sleazy by people in their own countries. They are indeed Muslims, but they are bad Muslims, failed in life, unobservant, sexually-frustrated, ill-educated, semi-criminal, drinking and drug-taking in violation of Muslim precepts. Their world-model is a sludgy cocktail of cherry-picked Islamic anti-kaffir attitudes, combined with archaic rural folk beliefs about women and "chastity". The cultures of the countryside and city are different - and most of the Pakistani population of England originates from Mirpur, a grim region of agricultural villages.

There's also the dislocation of being neither one thing nor the other. The mill jobs that their fathers emigrated for are long gone, and Mirpuris - lacking the Hindu community's obsession with education and talent for assimilation - find themselves adrift, the UK-born generations frequently mastering neither English nor Punjabi. Marinade with some partially-masticated race politics, so construing the abuse of these girls as payback to the racist English, and you've got yourself the toxic outlook that these men hold.

Living in an area which is about 90% pakistani origin muslim families, 1st to I guess 4th generation immigrants, I have never met a UK born person without a decent command of English, at least as good on average as those who can trace their families to the UK for more than 2-4 generations. idk about punjabi or urdu as I don't speak either language so would have no idea if they are speaking it well or not when I hear them speak, but English, nah, ime everyone can speak/write in English perfectly well.
I've basically zero idea about the rest of what you've posted but that bit I've bolded just does not fit with my experience at all.
 
Living in an area which is about 90% pakistani origin muslim families, 1st to I guess 4th generation immigrants, I have never met a UK born person without a decent command of English, at least as good on average as those who can trace their families to the UK for more than 2-4 generations. idk about punjabi or urdu as I don't speak either language so would have no idea if they are speaking it well or not when I hear them speak, but English, nah, ime everyone can speak/write in English perfectly well.
I've basically zero idea about the rest of what you've posted but that bit I've bolded just does not fit with my experience at all.

I think that most of the rest of what he posted was crap as well. Unless he is a Muslim theologian or whatever who is he to say what a bad Muslim is or isn't, and taking drugs and drinking doesn't make you a rapist nonce.
 
Living in an area which is about 90% pakistani origin muslim families, 1st to I guess 4th generation immigrants, I have never met a UK born person without a decent command of English, at least as good on average as those who can trace their families to the UK for more than 2-4 generations. idk about punjabi or urdu as I don't speak either language so would have no idea if they are speaking it well or not when I hear them speak, but English, nah, ime everyone can speak/write in English perfectly well.
I've basically zero idea about the rest of what you've posted but that bit I've bolded just does not fit with my experience at all.

I was watching the documentary on the Tyneside gang after the news and it showed 2 arrests and both of them had broad Geordie accents . I lived for a few years in a predominantly Pakistani area , dodgy ,rough and full of crims, and never once met anyone from that background who didn't speak English fluently .
Once had to pick up a set of keys to my brothers flat from a Pakistani owned off licence . The owner said " ah yes..that nice Scottish fellow " . That's about the most culturally confused Pakistani I've ever met .
 
Big Tom - do you deal much with the specific fraction of the community that I am referring to - the type of men who did these crimes ? And by mastery, I mean able to express themselves in standard written and spoken English. Overall in England, children of Pakistani heritage underperfom at GCSE - but in fact the situation may be worse in the North of England, as Pakistan heritage children in London perform better than whites, pulling up the average. The reason for this is that London Pakistanis have a different story, often coming from the big, sophisticated and diverse cities of Pakistan.

Some background info:
www.insted.co.uk/raising2005.pdf
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/327406/response/812041/attach/html/2/Final%20V3.xlsx.html
Operation Sanctuary: no easy answers (coincidentally, also uses the term "bad muslims")
 
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Big Tom - do you deal much with the specific fraction of the community that I am referring to - the type of men who did these crimes ? And by mastery, I mean able to express themselves in standard written and spoken English. Overall in England, children of Pakistani heritage underperfom at GCSE - but in fact the situation may be worse in the North of England, as Pakistan heritage children in London perform better than whites, pulling up the average. The reason for this is that London Pakistanis have a different story, often coming from the big, sophisticated and diverse cities of Pakistan.

Some background info:
www.insted.co.uk/raising2005.pdf
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/327406/response/812041/attach/html/2/Final%20V3.xlsx.html
Operation Sanctuary: no easy answers (coincidentally, also uses the term "bad muslims")

deal with? No, these are my friends and neighbours, I don't "deal with" anyone. afaik none of them are nonces, no. I am talking generally about the pakistani communities in Birmingham I live in/around. I don't see much written stuff, but spoken, it's really only the first generation that have difficulties with spoken English. Otherwise basically on a par with anyone else around here.
I've never spent that much time discussing where in Pakistan people's families come from but those I know who are visiting home are going to more rural areas, not to Karachi or Lahore.

I may have misread your second paragraph as a general statement about the pakistani communities from which these men emerge, as opposed to a characterisation of these men, but the way you said "mirpuris... find themselves adrift..." really reads to me like a general statement about the communities as a whole.
 
I think it's important to emphasise the role of racism in such cases where it's evident. Not just because it's accurate and anti racist to do so, but because it can further highlight the way right wingers so often try to minimise or deny racism on the part of white people.
 
I think it's important to emphasise the role of racism in such cases where it's evident. Not just because it's accurate and anti racist to do so, but because it can further highlight the way right wingers so often try to minimise or deny racism on the part of white people.
Is your racism detector bleeping in this case ?
 
Is your racism detector bleeping in this case ?

Certainly I recall "white bitch" being shouted at a victim from the galleries in the Rochdale trials. Ive not read loads about Rotherham but if brown people are disproportionately picking white victims then it starts to look suspicious to say the least. Scratch the surface, as I daresay some have, and there may well be racist assumptions about victims compounded by mysoginist terminology.
 
Looks to me like the girls and young women they targeted were 'picked' for their vulnerability, what colour their skin less important than whether or not they could successfully be groomed bullied bribed frightened drugged into compliance.
 
I think it's important to emphasise the role of racism in such cases where it's evident. Not just because it's accurate and anti racist to do so, but because it can further highlight the way right wingers so often try to minimise or deny racism on the part of white people.
What is the role of racism in this and other such cases?
 
Looks to me like the girls and young women they targeted were 'picked' for their vulnerability, what colour their skin less important than whether or not they could successfully be groomed bullied bribed frightened drugged into compliance.

They were accessible and vulnerable for sure. But racism is part of it:

news.sky.com/story/sex-abuse-gangs-view-white-girls-as-worthless-and-trash-10982586

Some Muslim men involved in cases where young white girls have been abused view them as "worthless", the head of the UK's Ramadhan Foundation has said. Mohammed Shafiq told Sky News: "There is a minority of criminals involved in sexual abuse of children in on-street gang grooming who view white girls as worthless. "They think they can be used in this abhorrent sort of way where they can be seen as trash."

[The] President of Newcastle's Asian Society, Davender Kumar Ghai, also told Sky News "it was about race". He claimed some Muslim Asian men living "in a ghetto in the West End" (of Newcastle) "call white women trash".

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/newcastle-child-sex-ring-asian-men-underage-white-girls-sex-abuse-racist-crime-lord-macdonald-cps-a7885571.html

Britain must confront the scourge of "profoundly racist" crime exemplified by the Operation Shelter grooming case, a former head of the Crown Prosecution Service has said.

The problem must be recognised "for what it is, which is profoundly racist crime," he added.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/18-predators-who-exploited-newcastles-10958912

Badrul Hussain [one of the perpetrators] told a Metro [ticket] inspector: "All white women are only good for one thing, for men like me to fuck and use as trash, that is all women like you are worth."


 
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Looks to me like the girls and young women they targeted were 'picked' for their vulnerability, what colour their skin less important than whether or not they could successfully be groomed bullied bribed frightened drugged into compliance.

Well definitely their vulnerability was key to this gangs activities . But it's also pretty certain there were racist attitudes at play too . One doesn't cancel the other out . Badrul Hussein had this to say to a woman who wasn't vulnerable . Without doubt he's not just a misogynist nonce but a bigot as well .

‘White women are good only for people like me to use as trash’

I don't see why a gang of serial rapists can't be racists too . their take on humanity is unlikely to be anything other than pretty negative .
 
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They're not exactly unique in seeing young white poor girls chavs/slags as worthless though are they? I think its a fairly mainstream societal attitude. Even the police and social services didn't view them as victims.
Let's say you're right. Do the mainstream groups you mention drug, rape, kidnap, threaten and traumatise such girls ?

You make a claim - "not exactly unique" - what's the point you're making ?
 
They're not exactly unique in seeing young white poor girls chavs/slags as worthless though are they? I think its a fairly mainstream societal attitude. Even the police and social services didn't view them as victims.

Except mr Hussein shouted this at a female ticket inspector on the metro . That attitude went way beyond young girls in care homes .

I don't see what the big issue is here . In every community there'll be a minority who have negative opinions about others who are culturally different...the other . Whether its racism, sectarianism , social class..whatever . Among those who have a background in a community were alcohol , pre marital sex etc can sometimes frowned upon to the extent were honour killings can occur in extreme circumstances , there's definitely going to be some negative attitudes towards those from a community were such things are run of the mill activity. Were that alone will mark someone out as different, lesser, immoral and therefore fair game to predators . racism / bigotry for the predator is just another means of self justification and looking down on their victims . Justifying their own sick behaviour towards others .
 
I think CR's right, about the way in which some people whose own experience / family rules include a strict ban on sex before marriage can sometimes see other people (women) who do not live by that stricture.
A long time ago had a conversation with someone who as far as I could tell genuinely did not understand why it would matter to me one way or the other if I had sex with him, seeing as I was neither a virgin nor married.
 
They're not exactly unique in seeing young white poor girls chavs/slags as worthless though are they? I think its a fairly mainstream societal attitude. Even the police and social services didn't view them as victims.

It seemed fairly clear to me that these attitudes among police and social services were a significant enabler for organised abuse.
 
Looks to me like the girls and young women they targeted were 'picked' for their vulnerability, what colour their skin less important than whether or not they could successfully be groomed bullied bribed frightened drugged into compliance.
They just usually happen to be white. I tuned into Radio 4 in the car this morning and caught some discussion of this subect. A female Muslim (I think) was pointing out that it's all been going on in Muslim families and 'communities' for a long time.

Seems like those of a certain inclination have just branched out to target those for whom they'd receive less or more reluctant censure. Obviously for religious reasons.
 
And the same as no 'community' in this society can really control the evil bastards in their midst, can we really expect the 'Islamic community' to control theirs?
 
I don't think so , they aren't a monolith or responsible for what every scumbag gets up to , any more than any other community. Predators will be predators at the end of the day. But spokespersons from within the Islamic community have acknowledged there are certain negative attitudes within their community to non muslim women and girls which urgently need addressed by the Muslim community . Seems there's a serious conversation needs to be had within that community according to some . The scale , the similarities and extent of it indicates there certainly is a large problem there with some attitudes that needs addressing . Sooner that conversation takes place the better .
 
Certainly I recall "white bitch" being shouted at a victim from the galleries in the Rochdale trials. Ive not read loads about Rotherham but if brown people are disproportionately picking white victims then it starts to look suspicious to say the least. Scratch the surface, as I daresay some have, and there may well be racist assumptions about victims compounded by mysoginist terminology.
Its not that "brown people" are disproportionately picking white victims though. Most studies on the subject show that sexual abuse of children and young people is mostly perpetrated by people from within families, friendship circles, and in positions of trust. Therefore most abuse is perpetrated by people from similar ethnic/religious backgrounds to their victims. What is happening here is that a subsection of men from muslim backgrounds are abusing predominantly white teenage girls, and the perpetrators hold racist as well as misogynistic beliefs about the victims. It may well be a significant pattern, but it doesn't in itself change the underlying statistics, and to overstate it does a disservice to brown and muslim victims of csa and sexual exploitation, as well as the victims of white perpetrators.
 
The scale and the ethnicity of the abusers is news worthy because its diffrent.

Its also in the polices amoung others to play up the evil racism of the gangs.
Rather than answer why these scumbags were allowed to get away with it for so fucking long.
In one case the police classiefied a gang rape of an under age girl as consencal and turned up a party nicked them for cannabis and failed to notice obviously underage girls drugged up :mad:.
 
Every culture, and ethnicity has pedophiles, just look at the church. However, it is strange that from such a small community there are so many offenders...... Nothing to do with religion, more to do with respect of women in a certain society in general, and, how people from that culture might treat women.
 
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