Come on, you know how to read this stuff - how does a report that shows a quarter of the sexual exploitation of kids in a town is carried out by people from a community which accounts for 4% of it's population counter anyone who says there's a problem with that community?
Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims
- Thread starter Ole
- Start date
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It might serve as such a stick if you were ignorant of statistics and demography, or were happy to wilfully distort. However, the stats presented by Rotherham public health, appear to show a disproportionate number of 'identified CSE offenders' are 'of Asian origin'. The total BME population being 8.1% of the population and, within that, the Pakistani/Kashmiri population being 3.1%, it is possible to say that the 'Asian' population lies somewhere between those 2 figures. Given that, the 24% 'Asian' offender rate is high, and it is important to remember that many of Prof Jay's comments about ethnicity related to those concerned with 'organising' CSE.
Lurdan
old wave
The document referred to in this Sheffield Star story is a draft report which now seems to have been removed from the Rotherham Safeguarding Children Board website. As I write this it is still available in the Google cache here.
(My guess, for what it's worth, is that the report isn't finalised and was only made public by accident).
The statistics being quoted (sections 3.1 to 3.5) are taken from a report prepared by Public Health Rotherham analysing reports of abuse between 2012 and 2014. This draft report states that this is included as an appendix but it is not.
The first comment under that Sheffield Star story says that the Public Health Rotherham report covered all Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) which includes intra-familial abuse. By contrast the Jay Report dealt with Child Sexual Exploitation (CSE), using a definition which went beyond 'localised grooming', the activity which attracted the most attention, but which excluded intra-familial abuse.
This draft Safeguarding Children Board report uses the same definition as the Jay Report but quotes the Public Health Rotherham statistics as referring to CSE not all CSA.
If that comment under the Star story is correct it would suggest that this report may be misquoting these statistics. Then again that comment itself may be bollocks.
In the absence of the Public Health Rotherham report itself it's impossible to judge whether or not there is some kind of error in how these statistics are being presented and if so what that error is.
But it seems evident that they haven't been officially published yet. It might be an idea to wait until then.
(My guess, for what it's worth, is that the report isn't finalised and was only made public by accident).
The statistics being quoted (sections 3.1 to 3.5) are taken from a report prepared by Public Health Rotherham analysing reports of abuse between 2012 and 2014. This draft report states that this is included as an appendix but it is not.
The first comment under that Sheffield Star story says that the Public Health Rotherham report covered all Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) which includes intra-familial abuse. By contrast the Jay Report dealt with Child Sexual Exploitation (CSE), using a definition which went beyond 'localised grooming', the activity which attracted the most attention, but which excluded intra-familial abuse.
This draft Safeguarding Children Board report uses the same definition as the Jay Report but quotes the Public Health Rotherham statistics as referring to CSE not all CSA.
If that comment under the Star story is correct it would suggest that this report may be misquoting these statistics. Then again that comment itself may be bollocks.
In the absence of the Public Health Rotherham report itself it's impossible to judge whether or not there is some kind of error in how these statistics are being presented and if so what that error is.
But it seems evident that they haven't been officially published yet. It might be an idea to wait until then.
Opera Buffa
griddling
Multiple convictions here, for fifteen years of abuse. Complicity and disinterest alleged on the behalf of the police and local authority, with evidence disappearing.
On the positive side, one of the fuckers got paralyzed from the waist down in a gangland shooting.
Arshid Hussain, 40, High Street, East Cowick, Goole, was convicted of 23 of the 28 charges he faced, including indecent assault and rape.
Basharat Hussain, 39, of no fixed abode, was convicted of all 15 charges he faced, including two counts of rape.
Bannaras Hussain, 36, of Bridge Close, Goole, pleaded guilty before the trial to 10 charges including rape, indecent assault and assault occasioning actual bodily harm.
Qurban Ali, 53, Clough Road, Rotherham, was convicted of conspiracy to rape, but cleared of three other charges including rape.
Majid Bostan, 37, Ledsham Road, Rotherham, was acquitted of one charge of indecent assault.
Sajid Bostan, 38, Broom Avenue, Rotherham, was acquitted of seven charges, including four counts of rape.
Karen MacGregor, 58, Barnsley Road, Wath, South Yorkshire, was convicted of of conspiracy to procure prostitutes and false imprisonment.
Shelley Davies, 40, Wainwright Road, Kimberworth Park, Rotherham, was found guilty of conspiracy to procure prostitutes and false imprisonment.
On the positive side, one of the fuckers got paralyzed from the waist down in a gangland shooting.
Arshid Hussain, 40, High Street, East Cowick, Goole, was convicted of 23 of the 28 charges he faced, including indecent assault and rape.
Basharat Hussain, 39, of no fixed abode, was convicted of all 15 charges he faced, including two counts of rape.
Bannaras Hussain, 36, of Bridge Close, Goole, pleaded guilty before the trial to 10 charges including rape, indecent assault and assault occasioning actual bodily harm.
Qurban Ali, 53, Clough Road, Rotherham, was convicted of conspiracy to rape, but cleared of three other charges including rape.
Majid Bostan, 37, Ledsham Road, Rotherham, was acquitted of one charge of indecent assault.
Sajid Bostan, 38, Broom Avenue, Rotherham, was acquitted of seven charges, including four counts of rape.
Karen MacGregor, 58, Barnsley Road, Wath, South Yorkshire, was convicted of of conspiracy to procure prostitutes and false imprisonment.
Shelley Davies, 40, Wainwright Road, Kimberworth Park, Rotherham, was found guilty of conspiracy to procure prostitutes and false imprisonment.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not like it, it is it.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
What is it about the actions of this government that makes you think they give a single solitary fuck about the suffering of vulnerable people?
bimble
floofy
This article here is an attempt to answer that question.. The reaction to Rotherham is a typical British blame game | Deborah Orr
All I feel about this story at the moment is a sort of crushing sadness so nothing to contribute here really.
souljacker
innit
I'm presuming the paralyzed one is this Arshid fella (known as 'Mad Ash' to his friends)? The court report mentioned one of the defendants appearing by video link from hospital.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
but the newspapers said it was the PC Brigade and their omerta. Surely they didn't lie to me?
Flanflinger
Well-Known Member
I doubt many get well soon cards will be coming his way.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Those who would normally moralise/wring their hands/demand someone do something are desperate for this to go away.
Problematically, it hasn't and won't. 1,4000 kids in one town. It's a an astonishing figure.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Shame it wasn't from the waist up.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I don't know what the newspapers did or didn't say but Newsnight last night interviewed the head of the CPS at the time who was clear the ethnicity of the perpetrators and the class of the victims were two of the key issues driving the disinterest of the police and politicians. Report after report - and the testimony of those trying to intevene and being told to shut their traps - indicate he was spot on.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
fourteen thousand?
likesfish
You can't park here sir
rotherham
nobody gets away without being neck deep in the shit with the possible exception of the far right who did make a load of noise about this for all the wrong reasons
nobody gets away without being neck deep in the shit with the possible exception of the far right who did make a load of noise about this for all the wrong reasons
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
class angle I buy straight away. Always have. Fears of being called racist on the parts of the police and pols? Well its a claim. An arse covering one. But its in the annals of truth now.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but the far right are always neck deep in the shit anywayrotherham
nobody gets away without being neck deep in the shit with the possible exception of the far right who did make a load of noise about this for all the wrong reasons
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
From what this fella was saying for the police it was a case of the victims being slags/out of control/druggies etc. They just were not bothered. The fear of being called racist seems to have paralyzed other agencies like social services, voluntary orgs etc.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
at the time much was made of that angle. A lot of hay. Because there really are whole orgs that would rather cover up rape and abuse than be thought racist. OK.
another one at the time which had me wondering why this wanker hadn't been sacked was the copper who dismissed a concern over a 14 year old as it was-his words- consensual. Absolute gall of it to say that as if he doesn't know what the law is. SYP, one of the three worst I think.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
likesfish
You can't park here sir
yes a 14 yr old consents to a gangbang in a squat
police couldn't be bothered confused about sexual grooming apparently unless its spelled out in black and white cops get confused
Rotherham council were corrupt and threatened voluntary orgs that tried to raise the issue.
social services did their normal bang up job massively overload the staff give them difficult clients zero support bang on about community tensions and step back and watch it all go to hell.
Last edited:
The Pale King
Well-Known Member
The police shared a misogynistic complicity with the perpetrators. They knew the press would lap up the 'political correctness' angle though, and sure enough that's the one the BBC led with last night.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
So the people with the arrest powers, mandate, job to have done things to prevent this- the police- are once more walking away from this pile of shit whistling with hands in pockets.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Nice and neat.
Except, it fails to address the myriad of other agencies who should have intervened and blown the whistle on the pedophiles and the police. There are a host of central and local government bodies, charities, voluntary sector bodies, 'campaigners' and so on who were either in on the misogyny (unlikely, given their political outlook) or who looked the other way for other reasons which are to do with race.
bimble
floofy
But, several such agencies (voluntary / charities) did send reports to the police & to local government didn't they , full of detail on what they knew was going on but their information was not acted on in any way, it just went nowhere.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
No. A few individuals did. They interviewed 2 women from a local group last night - who I thought were very brave - and they tried to blow the whistle all over the shop. What they found was either indifference or sloping shoulders.
The idea that everyone was desperately getting the police to do something is simply false.
And that - along with the squeamish fear of the liberals about the issues posed - explains why this barely merits attention.
bimble
floofy
You're probably right and I was trying to make too much of the interviews with those women from the local group - and also that other bloke - who had sent reports to police & local government which (according to Newsnight) were "suppressed": Maybe it was just them, and not 'several agencies'.
Don't disagree with what you're saying by the way - just can't face a repetition of the themes on the Cologne NYE thread, if you know what I mean.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
at the time it came out those who had spoken up were quick to say so. I seem to recall more than the 2 women smokeandsteam mentioned. Almost invariably workers 'at the sharp end' iirc. These concerns then not taken forward by higher up, or the police. And thats where I think the class angle ties in with the same police inaction. The PC Brigade was a cast iron deflector though. I bet there were even a few criminally negligent twats who did think 'better not look raciist'. But everyone involved? 1400 kids? Are we really to believe the sheer amount of people involved in the agencies orgs and policing would rather cover up abuse of the vulnerable than look racist? Cos thats what we are being asked to swallow here.
I think it's more complicated than than 'not wanting to look racist'. Look at how posters on this thread have desperately clung onto anything that looks like evidence that contradicts the idea that it's a problem with a particular community (even when, on closer examination it turned out to do no such thing). You don't even have to read back that far in the thread to see it...
I think what happened in Rotherham is at least partly a larger-scale version of that kind of thinking. Denial rather than conscious covering up.
Similar threads
