SpineyNorman
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This is a weak comeback even by your dire standards.
Racism Alive and Well in USA
- Thread starter Johnny Canuck3
- Start date
This is a weak comeback even by your dire standards.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
That's not how racism works. Racists abuse people of different race because of their racist belief. It forms part of their personality makeup.
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that every black adult in the US, and probably in the UK as well, has been in a situation where someone on the street has verbally racially abused them.
I suppose it's true, though: people who do this do have issues. Their issue is that they're racist, and don't consider the objects of their abuse to be entitled to the same level of common respect or courtesy.
maomao
普費斯
The threats came after the filming. Were he have to called the cops rather than filmed her it could only have been on the basis of what happened prior to the filming. I seriously doubt he would have got anywhere calling the police and saying 'some woman just called me a n-----'.
SpineyNorman
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Yes. He should have called the police. Had he done so there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that she would have been charged with terrorism. Definitely. That would have happened.
Also, I don't think the 'which I watch' was necessary - given that you're telling us what they said it would be more surprising to hear that you didn't watch it.
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Miss Caphat
I want it that way
yes, he would have. it's racial harassment/ hate speech.
I'm a US citizen. I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the Erie County District Attorney's office doesn't agree.
The threats came during the filming otherwise we wouldn't have seen them.
He could have called the cops and said "ive been threatened with assault" or some such. He needn't have given out his ethnicity over the phone either. Why should he?
maomao
普費斯
Provide an example of that happening then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.A.V._v._City_of_St._Paul
R.A.V. v. City of St Paul 1992 - Supreme court upholds that hate speech is acceptable unless it is the direct cause of hate violence.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
That just proves that if he'd called the police they'd have done something about it. Or something.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
oopsy, you're right.
the whole hate speech thing is still being debated. I thought that had changed in recent years. In any case, I still think someone directly verbally harassing and threatening someone would warrant an arrest (and often does)
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
And this guy did everything the apologists always say. He was calm and collected and didn't insult anyone - christ knows I would have. And yet _amazingly enough_ nothing happens. Hey, he should be happy he didn't get arrested himself, like if he'd been an angry black man or something.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This young Turks channel sounds proper informed on legal stuff mind.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
a few examples and an explanation
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...s-Confederate-flag-at-Toby-Keith-concert.html
http://www.wnd.com/2002/02/12844/
http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-be-charged-or-arrested-for-saying-racial-slu-1567106.html
http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2..._slurs_against_passenger_during_argument.html
SpineyNorman
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I'd like to hear the views of an African American who's tried to get police assistance in a similar context - because examples of where the police do something about it tells you nothing about how often they don't.
I suspect, much like the UK, it depends on where you are in the country and even who the individual copper is who takes the call. Two examples from my own experience - copper called out after a friend had the shit kicked out of him by an Asian lad - copper referred to him as a 'paki'. Another one where a black friend was racially abused by a pub landlord, in front of horrified customers - did the square root of fuck all.
I'm not suggesting the police in the US are necessarily worse than elsewhere, but equally I find it just about impossible to believe it's the only country where police racism/tolerance of racism doesn't exist.
maomao
普費斯
Charged with harassment, disorderly persons, criminal trespassing and related offenses, he was being racist but that's not why he was arrested.
Though he did serve seven days for assault, the jury refused to convict of a hate crime and that conviction was overturned on appeal four years later.
2nd answer is most illuminating:
some lawyer on the internet said:
That is the racial slurs are not considered a hate crime in themselves.
She was certainly arrested. Can't find any evidence at all that she was succesfully charged. Can't find any evidence that she went to court.
It's certainly changed over the last twenty years but it's not standard in the US for people to be arrested and certainly not standard for them to be prosecuted for using racial epithets.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
I don't know how we went from "you cannot be arrested in the US for verbal harassment, ever, because of freedom of speech" and me arguing that wasn't the case to me implying that "the US is the only country where police racism/ tolerance of racism doesn't exist"
in fact, most people who know my views on things would find it laughable that I would imply anything of the sort.
Of course it depends on the circumstances, and of course there is a great deal of racism inherent in the legal system as well as amongst the police here.
doesn't change the fact that the woman could have been arrested/ charged
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
ok, this is silly. you claimed that you couldn't be arrested in the US for anything that involved words rather than actions. that's simply not true. it's always been a grey area, and judged on a case by case basis.
maomao
普費斯
And you claimed that he would have got help from the police because it would have constituted hate speech/harrassment and that you knew this to be true because you were a US citizen. Your own evidence certainly doesn't support that position.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
yes, and I admitted my mistake. have you admitted your own?
eta: you most certainly can be charged with harassment/ threatening here. that was never in question.
maomao
普費斯
Yes, at the end of post #167.
Again, what apologists?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Again?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I find it pretty fucking incredible that there's some argument going on here about whether people engaging in racist abuse should be publicly humiliated or just left alone.
the term has been flung around already. There are no apologists on this thread.
We don't know what the outcome would have been had the cops been called there and then either.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Of course we know. We know what has had even with everything on youtube - nothing.
Those are not the only two options and if the cops refuse to get involved in what is clearly, or certainly should be, an offence then that is a separate issue.
I think it's preffy 'fucking incredible' that people think they have the right to hold court of others as video vigilantes. This isn't merely an issue of shaming someone, the purpose of which is to promote correct behaviour, it's about plasteringt hem all over the internet so they can forever more be sneered at by people who may well be equally nasty minded themselves. How does this video help end racism?
maomao
普費斯
You. And your first response wasn't that he should have called the police. You only thought of that later. Your first response was that he should have just walked away:
Awesome Wells said:
We can only guess that.
It's also a separate issue. If the cops don't want to get involved or would not have, had they been called, then that is ill informed. It doesn't mean they shouldn't have been called and guessing what they would have done had they been so is stupid. You don't know.
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