Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc

[shagnasty]

*This post means no prejudice to the mentally ill, out of work, members of society.

Some mentally ill persons can work, some can't.
In my experience, not only will the idea of wrongly forcing work on a mentally ill person harm their health, it puts other colleagues at risk too.
So, dear workers, not only do the unemployed have unsettled insecure times ahead, so do the employed.

^this is in no way, a threat, Its just the best way to word it.

You are quite right my brother is an alcoholic and is signed off because he is a danger to people he would work with

 

[ViolentPanda]

Get a proper job then, before you end up picking litter up in the park!!!!

That the best you can do, Nigel, endlessly repeat the same old bollocks you came out with previously?

You poor sad wee shite.

 

[ViolentPanda]

1 But work is not all about physical ability.

Of course it isn't, but enough of a significant part of work does involve physical activity that it's a reasonable indicator.

I am not saying that Doctors are all completely useless or stuck up twats though plenty are......

Ever thought that they may just be reflecting your own attitudes back at you?

2 Disabled persons working tax credits, the minimum income guarantee etc.....
Obvious to me that you are far more capable than lots of people who are supposedly employed to offer support and advice to people that i often come in to contact with.....
Mind you a lot of them really are hopeless parasites.....

Both the things you mention can be effective in helping people whose condition(s) are reasonably stable and predictable, but they don't do much for someone like me who, just as a "for instance", doesn't know from one minute to the next whether I'm going to have to chew a couple of 5ml diazepam tablets because my muscles go into clonic spasm and tear themselves. Employers don't want unpredictable employees, they want drones, people who can do 8-5 48 weeks a year.

 

[ViolentPanda]

BBC 10 Clock News has just broadcast yet another package on benefit fraud, naming a number of individuals, one has to ask what are they up to? benefit fraud used to be lucky if it got in the local paper, i have said before it seems to have an agenda

Was that the piece about Welsh referees claiming disability benefits? Wow, 4 cases in the entire principality. I was STUNNED, I tells ya!

 

[trevhagl]

Has anyone protested about this? I have rang my MP but i bet i get a standard letter back full of bullshit like i did about PO closures - but at least i've registered some disatisfaction. Some people are that selfish they couldn't give a fuck as long as THEY have a good job or whatever

 

[panpete]

BBC 10 Clock News has just broadcast yet another package on benefit fraud, naming a number of individuals, one has to ask what are they up to? benefit fraud used to be lucky if it got in the local paper, i have said before it seems to have an agenda

Agreed - the agenda is control of people's time. Tie up peoples' time, motivate them with threats. Encourage egocentric needs for justification in every individual.

 

[panpete]

You are quite right my brother is an alcoholic and is signed off because he is a danger to people he would work with

Shamefully, that's the way I was headed.
I, probably like many middle aged people who have had loads of jobs, have seen this all too often.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Shamefully, that's the way I was headed.

Nothing particularly shameful about it.

 

[_angel_]

Of course it isn't, but enough of a significant part of work does involve physical activity that it's a reasonable indicator.

Ever thought that they may just be reflecting your own attitudes back at you?

Both the things you mention can be effective in helping people whose condition(s) are reasonably stable and predictable, but they don't do much for someone like me who, just as a "for instance", doesn't know from one minute to the next whether I'm going to have to chew a couple of 5ml diazepam tablets because my muscles go into clonic spasm and tear themselves. Employers don't want unpredictable employees, they want drones, people who can do 8-5 48 weeks a year.

Don't be stupid VP you ought to know in advance when your condition will play you up. It ought to run to a set timetable of x hours per week for 52 weeks of the year!

 

[tbaldwin]

Of course it isn't, but enough of a significant part of work does involve physical activity that it's a reasonable indicator.

Ever thought that they may just be reflecting your own attitudes back at you?

Both the things you mention can be effective in helping people whose condition(s) are reasonably stable and predictable, but they don't do much for someone like me who, just as a "for instance", doesn't know from one minute to the next whether I'm going to have to chew a couple of 5ml diazepam tablets because my muscles go into clonic spasm and tear themselves. Employers don't want unpredictable employees, they want drones, people who can do 8-5 48 weeks a year.

1 Its obviously different between different jobs.

2 You know what you could be right up to a point. Still think a lot of them are utter stuck up wankers though.....

3 Overgeneralising again...Not all employers want exactly the same type of drones......I am preety unpredictable at work me self.....but never lethargic....

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't be stupid VP you ought to know in advance when your condition will play you up. It ought to run to a set timetable of x hours per week for 52 weeks of the year!

I certainly wish it did!

 

[Nigel]

Tell me, oh Wise One, how you would manage to make a housebound longterm sick and disabled person pick up litter in the park?

Do you think that housebound people will have to pick up litter which has been already collected? Would it be picked up from the park, delivered to the door (by somebody else), posted piecemeal through the letterbox, maybe picked up by the housebound person, and then have to be taken out by a carer / personal assistant (careworkers provided by social services do not take out rubbish, even if people are unable to do so for themselves)?

If so, it might be a highly effective work creation scheme, but neither efficient or productive.

Be very careful what you say about people on benefits. I seem to remember that you're self-employed, and have thus forfeited anything like the safety net available to employees when they lose their jobs. Don't kid yourself that you're immune.

You're right.
I'll stop.
What about my previous post.
If they are trying to mobilise their resources to try this initiative out in Scotland, some activity should be mobilised around this area. Particularly, as it be unpopular, and you would have a sympathetic audience to gain support?

 

[Nigel]

Anyone got any information on BISCOM?
How they are structured and their relationship to other agencies within this field?

They seem to be a weak link in the chain?

 

[sihhi]

He has gone.

but its worse now than it was with him.


http://news.scotsman.com/news/Election-2010-Labour-puts-time.6218141.jp

It's the YTS for all adults but worse.

One senior Labour minister said: "We've seen a lot of something-for-nothing policies from the Conservatives last week. The manifesto will provide a something-for-something approach."

Labour outdoing Peter Lilley.

Je suis un citoyen de l'Europe . . . Give me my benefits or I'll take you to the European Court. But next year's edition will have just one phrase - Ou est la societe de something for nothing? Sorry, Jacques, Britain's branch is closed.

 

[shagnasty]

They were already going to force workfare on to people anyway so this is really no different

 

[_angel_]

I think I'd rather do a pretend-job than be forced into one of those A4E no-training centres and be bossed about by some total wanker... does it say if these pretend jobs will be paid properly??

Will they provide childcare for all the lone parents being tossed onto JSA?

I've got to say, I'm worried that they would have time limited benefits and just chucked people off em into starvation -- that's probably going to be the tory policy isn't it?

I think the thing to worry about it -- what happens if that person becomes unemployed again in their lifetime -- is that it?

Jobs created in the young person's scheme have included work in recycling projects, renovation programmes, child care and forestry work. The hope is that, once the funding has run out, the former benefit claimant has the necessary skills to get back into the workplace full-time.

It's all fucking about making that person responsibility for unemployment that is the government's doing! Skills and attitude do not create jobs.

Although, it is Sunday and a lot of these things seem to get touted about on a Sunday experimentally..



eta: it's not Sunday now damned school holidays losing all perspective on time!!!

 

[treelover]

This is incredible, time limited benefits for two years is even something Purnell would not have introduced, these were right wing Tory thinktanks/US Connservative policies, the onslaught on the unemployed, etc is relentless and the media seems to be a cheerleader for reform. Have they thought what will happen to that person when their money is stopped, they have to eat, crime, poverty, soup kitchens, that is the future but NL don't care as long as they 'top' the Tories in a race to the bottom

I suspect the Tories were planning this as well, when will there be a public reaction or are they happy with it all.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

i already posted about the pilot areas for work for dole schemes here

 

[treelover]

I know from experience in the 80' that employers do discriminate and that for various reason, there will be plenty of people who just won't be taken on by employers etc, what will happen to them, the workhouse really is not far off.

 

[_angel_]

I know from experience in the 80' that employers do discriminate and that for various reason, there will be plenty of people who just won't be taken on by employers etc, what will happen to them, the workhouse really is not far off.

No-- a workhouse would ensure food and a roof over someone's head. That has not been guaranteed by this policy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know from experience in the 80' that employers do discriminate and that for various reason, there will be plenty of people who just won't be taken on by employers etc, what will happen to them, the workhouse really is not far off.

they'd have to build the workhouses first

 

[treelover]

There are plenty of hospitals, etc waiting to be closed under the austerity measures.

 

[_angel_]

What makes you think they'll actually house people? It could be like the cutting of hb for 16-18's altho tbf we don't know what will happen in theory after two yrs if someone does everything the govt asks for and then get made unemployed again.

 

[Pickman's model]

What makes you think they'll actually house people? It could be like the cutting of hb for 16-18's altho tbf we don't know what will happen in theory after two yrs if someone does everything the govt asks for and then get made unemployed again.

fuck the cutting of housing benefit for the young, according to glenda jackson in the current camden new journal the tory party wants to shift social housing rents to the same level as private, which in london would mean going from an average of £76/wk to £207/wk. which i assume would affect significantly more people than chopping hb for people under 18 (tho that's not good either)

 

[_angel_]

fuck the cutting of housing benefit for the young, according to glenda jackson in the current camden new journal the tory party wants to shift social housing rents to the same level as private, which in london would mean going from an average of £76/wk to £207/wk. which i assume would affect significantly more people than chopping hb for people under 18 (tho that's not good either)

this is already happening to housing assoc rents already unfortunately... another reason not to vote for labour or any other party who let it go on.
never quite sure how anyone in london can afford to live on a minimum wage job, i guess they really DO want a return to 10 people sharing a room.

 

[treelover]

Even Harsher New ESA Medical Approved

Tens of thousands of claimants facing losing their benefit on review, or on being transferred from incapacity benefit, as plans to make the employment and support allowance (ESA) medical much harder to pass are approved by the secretary of state for work and pensions, Yvette Cooper. The shock plans for ‘simplifying’ the work capability assessment, drawn up by a DWP working group, include docking points from amputees who can lift and carry with their stumps. Claimants with speech problems who can write a sign saying, for example, ‘The office is on fire!’ will score no points for speech and deaf claimants who can read the sign will lose all their points for hearing. Meanwhile, for ‘health and safety reasons’ all points scored for problems with bending and kneeling are to be abolished and claimants who have difficulty walking can be assessed using imaginary wheelchairs.

Claimants who have difficulty standing for any length of time will, under the plans, also have to show they have equal difficulty sitting, and vice versa, in order to score any points. And no matter how bad their problems with standing and sitting, they will not score enough points to be awarded ESA. In addition, almost half of the 41 mental health descriptors for which points can be scored are being removed from the new ‘simpler’ test, greatly reducing the chances of being found incapable of work due to such things as poor memory, confusion, depression and anxiety. There are some improvements to the test under the plans, including exemptions for people likely to be starting chemotherapy and more mental health grounds for being admitted to the support group. But the changes are overwhelmingly about pushing tens of thousands more people onto JSA.

If all this sounds like a sick and rather belated April Fools joke to you, we’re not surprised. But the proposals are genuine and have already been officially agreed by Yvette Cooper, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. They have not yet been passed into law, but given that both Labour and the Conservatives seem intent on driving as many people as possible off incapacity related benefits, they are likely to be pursued by whichever party wins the election. We know that many people will find this news deeply upsetting and even frightening and we know that some people will condemn us for publicising the planned changes or for the language that we are using to do so. But we also believe that it’s not too late to stop these ugly plans in their tracks if claimants and the organisations that represent them act now.

With 1.5 million incapacity benefit claimants waiting to be assessed using the work capability assessment in the next few years and tens of thousands of people already on ESA and set to be reviewed annually, these changes will be of great concern to many voters – if they find out about them before polling day.

So, please spread the word in forums and blogs and to people you know who may be affected. Ask any disability charity you have a connection with to speak out now, before election day, against these plans. You might also want to contact local newspapers and radio to warn people about the proposals.

And above all, contact not just your MP, but the other candidates in your constituency, and let them know you will not be voting for anyone who does not loudly condemn this shameful attack on sick and disabled claimants.

These plans really are a potential seat loser, but only if enough people know about them.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/new...dical-approved

This is being reposted from benefits and work, it is chilling, who on earth will pass this new test, the dead?

 

[DotCommunist]

it's ridiculous, there aren't enough jobs for people without difficulties of health, where are we going to magic up extra jobs from?

 

[sihhi]

it's ridiculous, there aren't enough jobs for people without difficulties of health, where are we going to magic up extra jobs from?

Employers own all the jobs - the answer is "training placements".

 

[ericjarvis]

What makes you think they'll actually house people? It could be like the cutting of hb for 16-18's altho tbf we don't know what will happen in theory after two yrs if someone does everything the govt asks for and then get made unemployed again.

Always bear in mind that having a good large pool of homeless people keeps the pressure on the housing market. House price inflation leads to people being able to borrow more. That makes the less intelligent of them think that times are good. That makes the government popular.

That's the unspoken agenda on housing in the UK over the last few decades. Lots of blather about dealing with homelessness from people who not only have a vested interest in keeping housing in short supply, but who have (regardless of party) chosen policies largely on the basis of helping homeowners to borrow and screwing the homeless.

Housing is a political tool, and one that has been consistently used to fool the middle classes into thinking the government is giving them something, whilst in fact the government is giving money to the wealthy and screwing the poor, and the middle classes are borrowing against something they don't actually own. The inevitable result is boom and bust style financial craziness which will then be blamed on everyone but the government and middle class home owners borrowing more than they can afford.

 

[_angel_]

it's ridiculous, there aren't enough jobs for people without difficulties of health, where are we going to magic up extra jobs from?

They have abolished "sickness" as a concept for thousands though, they are now "well" and just unemployed because of their own personal failings.