Possible vaccines/treatment(s) for Coronavirus

[Cloo]

A good article here which is more optimistic than title suggests: Opinion | Don’t Get Too Excited About the Coronavirus Vaccine

Basically saying that having an end in sight changes the game for governments funding closed businesses and supporting unemployed people as it's now looking less likely that the duration is indefinite - it would be better to batten down the hatches for this winter and close restaurants, plan on a very limited Christmas etc to avoid a really massive winter spike before the vaccine can be implemented.

I doubt they'll do this, because 'Christmas' ,but I expect it means there could be less hesitation to, say, have a big lockdown after Christmas and just fucking fund everything to the hilt until spring.

 

[Supine]

Vaccine news. Long read.

While Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine turned in strong early efficacy numbers and NIAID director Anthony Fauci said he expects similar figures from Moderna, the new class of mRNA shots mostly comes with stringent storage requirements that raise logistical hurdles for a broad rollout. Except the program under development at CureVac, which now reports its candidate is stable for up to three months at refrigerator temperatures.

Dubbed CVnCoV, CureVac's shot can also be kept for up to 24 hours at room temperature, further reducing burdens for vaccination efforts, the company said.

The German biotech, which advanced to phase 2a testing in late September, is "very encouraged by the emerging stability profile," of its vaccine candidate, chief production officer Florian von der Mülbe said in a statement. The profile "has the potential both to enable decentralized storage and to significantly facilitate large-scale vaccination efforts during the current pandemic," he added.

Other vaccines in the new mRNA class, such as the candidates from Pfizer and Moderna, need to be kept at subzero temperatures. Pfizer's shot requires storage at a frigid minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 70 degrees Celsius), and will only last about 24 hours at refrigerated temperatures between 35.6 and 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit. Despite the challenges, the company has an ambitious plan for its rollout.

Aware of the logistical challenges with its candidate, Pfizer is working on a powdered formulation for a potential rollout next year, chief scientist Mikael Dolsten told Business Insider.

This week, Pfizer reported the two-dose regimen was more than 90% effective in an early phase 3 analysis. Questions remain about the vaccine's safety, its durability of protection and its effects among various patient populations.

Sanofi and Translate Bio are advancing a vaccine that needs to be stored at an even colder 112 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. A spokeswoman this week said the team is “working on improving the stability," and is targeting a storage temperature of minus 4 degrees Fahrenheit.

Meanwhile, Moderna is expected to post its first phase 3 data soon. That vaccine requires storage at minus 4 degrees Fahrenheit.
Outside the mRNA class, other players such as Sanofi, Johnson & Johnson and Novavax are advancing shots that can be stored at refrigerated temperatures. A J&J spokesman said the company anticipates its vaccine will be "compatible with standard distribution channels without the need for new distribution infrastructure."

CureVac this week posted more positive early data for its program, but questions about its tolerability remain. The company advanced to a phase 2a study in Peru and Panama back in September.

 

[elbows]

Why no link to the article?

CureVac's mRNA coronavirus shot boasts one advantage over Pfizer and Moderna counterparts—refrigerated storage

While Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine turned in strong efficacy numbers and NIAID director Anthony Fauci said he expects similar figures from Moderna, the new class of mRNA shots mostly comes with stringent storage requirements that raise logistical hurdles to a broad rollout. Except CureVac, which...

www.fiercepharma.com

 

[two sheds]

So that's at least three with 90% effectiveness they can combine them for 270%

 

[Supine]

Why no link to the article?

CureVac's mRNA coronavirus shot boasts one advantage over Pfizer and Moderna counterparts—refrigerated storage

While Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine turned in strong efficacy numbers and NIAID director Anthony Fauci said he expects similar figures from Moderna, the new class of mRNA shots mostly comes with stringent storage requirements that raise logistical hurdles to a broad rollout. Except CureVac, which...

www.fiercepharma.com

Because annoying pop up windows. What's the problem?

 

[elbows]

Well in general I think its important to know the source, and thats what people almost always do.

I didnt know about the popups, I think my browser was automatically killing them (Safari).

 

[LDC]

Just had my second dose of the Novavax trial vaccine/placebo. Had a good chat with one of the leading research doctors in the program while I was there and they were very cautious/pessimistic that a vaccine is anywhere near general usage, saying it's much more likely to be second half of next year at the earliest, and they were of the opinion the optimism around the Pfizer/BioNTech was partly driven by them, and partly by the government and media wanting 'good news' for us.

E2A: When I say leading I mean someone that's been interviewed about vaccines on TV and Google throws their name up straight away, not a doctor that was bullshitting a lot.

 

[elbows]

Just had my second dose of the Novavax trial vaccine/placebo. Had a good chat with one of the leading research doctors in the program while I was there and they were very cautious/pessimistic that a vaccine is anywhere near general usage, saying it's much more likely to be second half of next year at the earliest, and they were of the opinion the optimism around the Pfizer/BioNTech was partly driven by them, and partly by the government and media wanting 'good news' for us.

It is certainly true that during periods of 'lockdown' there is a scrabble to find causes for optimism and 'light at the end of the tunnel'. The first time around this led to things like Hancock making all sorts of wild claims about testing that never came to fruition. I put the vaccine stuff partially in that category, but tthere is a bit more to it than just that. I am completely ignoring most talk about timescales.

 

[kropotkin]

I agree with the latter. I'm also not very confident that the vaccine will be particularly useful, as as of today I now know four (personally) who have PCR confirmed reinfection within a ~6month interval. If prior infection can't make subsequent reinfection much less likely than this, I have little hope for a vaccine achieving it.

 

[LDC]

I agree with the latter. I'm also not very confident that the vaccine will be particularly useful, as as of today I now know four (personally) who have PCR confirmed reinfection within a ~6month interval. If prior infection can't make subsequent reinfection much less likely than this, I have little hope for a vaccine achieving it.

What's the outlook then if that's the case, constant rolling re-infections and death (or not) forever? With better treatments helping a bit along the way? Or a vaccine shot every few months?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I agree with the latter. I'm also not very confident that the vaccine will be particularly useful, as as of today I now know four (personally) who have PCR confirmed reinfection within a ~6month interval. If prior infection can't make subsequent reinfection much less likely than this, I have little hope for a vaccine achieving it.

I know there's been a few reinfection cases reported, but from everything I've read, it has largely been dismissed as something very rare, but that's clearly not the case from your experience.

Shit.

 

[Teaboy]

I agree with the latter. I'm also not very confident that the vaccine will be particularly useful, as as of today I now know four (personally) who have PCR confirmed reinfection within a ~6month interval. If prior infection can't make subsequent reinfection much less likely than this, I have little hope for a vaccine achieving it.

Blimey. I only know one person that has had a positive test and only because he's my company MD. Of my various friendship groups no one has had a confirmed test. You know 4 people that have had two confirmed tests each. I don't know what to make of this and can't really get my head around what it means.

 

[elbows]

Blimey. I only know one person that has had a positive test and only because he's my company MD. Of my various friendship groups no one has had a confirmed test. You know 4 people that have had two confirmed tests each. I don't know what to make of this and can't really get my head around what it means.

Being a healthcare worker is part of the context there.

 

[kropotkin]

Blimey. I only know one person that has had a positive test and only because he's my company MD. Of my various friendship groups no one has had a confirmed test. You know 4 people that have had two confirmed tests each. I don't know what to make of this and can't really get my head around what it means.

Yeah, I'm a physician working in acute medicine (and also running a covid ward) in one of the Trusts with the fastest rising caseload in the country. On the covid ward we have had 15 staff infected in the last week.

 

[LDC]

Yeah, I'm a physician working in acute medicine (and also running a covid ward) in one of the Trusts with the fastest rising caseload in the country. On the covid ward we have had 15 staff infected in the last week.

Would you say that's through work or outside, or no idea? If it's through work isn't that a serious infection control issue/failure?

 

[kropotkin]

Through work, for sure. No problems with infection control failure I don't think.
My honest opinion is that coughing is an "aerosol generating procedure", and that close contact with multiple cohorted virally shedding patients with a viral pneumonia causes an increased risk of transmission even when wearing a plastic apron, gloves and a surgical mask.

 

[Wilf]

What I took from the announcement on the Pfizer interim results was a headline good news story (the 90% protection), but a worrying lack of detail about everything else. Not knowing whether people who are protected can still pass it on; issues around reinfection; whether it reduces symptoms in those who do contract it etc.

I'm taking from that that the vaccine is the ideal tool to roll out whilst still locked down, to allow it suppress and contain. My fear is it will be deployed as political cover to reduce all the restrictions that have affected the economy. A kind of ideological vaccine.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Through work, for sure. No problems with infection control failure I don't think.
My honest opinion is that coughing is an "aerosol generating procedure", and that close contact with multiple cohorted virally shedding patients with a viral pneumonia causes an increased risk of transmission even when wearing a plastic apron, gloves and a surgical mask.

What just basic surgical masks?

Are staff working on covid wards not issued with the N95 respirator type masks?

 

[elbows]

Genome-based hospital studies are being done in order to better understand transmission pathways and scenarios, and that will include staff and patients. There are lots of factors, including hundreds of patients across NHS England hospitals currently becoming infected in hospital every day. And staff passing it to each other, for example in staff communal areas, has sometimes been an area of concern and focus.

If routine, regular staff testing also ends up properly in place then we'd expect lots of cases to be picked up that would not have been detected if the people concerned did a different job that didnt involve routine testing.

 

[kropotkin]

I suspect that some people are probably more prone to aerosol generation (structural airway stuff+type of cough??)

What just basic surgical masks?

Are staff working on covid wards not issued with the N95 respirator type masks?

That's correct. As per PHE guidelines

 

[elbows]

Indeed, just because the media stopped going on about acute PPE shortages doesnt mean we then implemented world class standards of PPE for all potentially risky scenarios. The guidelines have always been a fudge that was as much about what supplies were available and thus what was considered practical, as anything else.

 

[LDC]

Indeed, just because the media stopped going on about acute PPE shortages doesnt mean we then implemented world class standards of PPE for all potentially risky scenarios. The guidelines have always been a fudge that was as much about what supplies were available and thus what was considered practical, as anything else.

Yup. As mentioned back then a few of us had rows about it at my workplace in March and April, and we were told to shut the fuck up on threat of a disciplinary as it was what the PHE were recommending, subject over.

 

[ignatious]

I agree with the latter. I'm also not very confident that the vaccine will be particularly useful, as as of today I now know four (personally) who have PCR confirmed reinfection within a ~6month interval. If prior infection can't make subsequent reinfection much less likely than this, I have little hope for a vaccine achieving it.

Any info yet on how the severity of each infection compares - did they feel worse second time round or not as bad?

 

[kropotkin]

One friend who is a palliative care consultant is more sick than first time round. Don't know about the others.
In other news, the outbreak is now 17 staff.

 

[Wilf]

One friend who is a palliative care consultant is more sick than first time round. Don't know about the others.
In other news, the outbreak is now 17 staff.

Sounds a bit trite saying look after yourself, but as much as you can... look after yourself.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Still hope the Oxford vaccine will be approved by Christmas, and could be our main weapon against covid, as storage is easier and the cost is a fraction of the Pfizer/BioNTech one.

Tens of millions of UK-made coronavirus vaccines will be ready for production by the end of the year, claims a professor overseeing the trial.

Professor Andrew Pollard, chief investigator of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine trial, was “optimistic” to get approval on the jab by Christmas.

Professor Pollard said the Oxford vaccine will be ten times cheaper than the Pfizer/BioNTech jab and easier to deliver because it doesn't have to be stored at temperatures below -70C.

The director of the Oxford Vaccine Group told the Sun: “Ours are stored at fridge temperature.”

AstraZeneca will deliver the vaccine on a not-for-profit basis, he added.

The Government has put in an order for 100million doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, which is believed to cost £2.23 per dose.

It has also ordered 40million doses of the Pfizer vaccine, which needs two injections thought to cost £29.47.

Millions of UK-made coronavirus vaccines 'ready by Christmas', professor claims

Professor Andrew Pollard says the experimental vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca is on the cusp of demonstrating “efficacy”, just days after Pfizer's huge announcement

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Mation]

I think those descriptors might have been written by a PPE (no the other type) graduate...

Why? They're useful descriptions if you're presenting to non-scientists, or scientists in a very different field. You don't want to spend your time explaining concepts or settling for people not following what you mean later on. The idea is to communicate!

 

[purenarcotic]

Yup. As mentioned back then a few of us had rows about it at my workplace in March and April, and we were told to shut the fuck up on threat of a disciplinary as it was what the PHE were recommending, subject over.

Why then, when the news goes into hospitals now am I seeing people in far, far more PPE than that? Visors, N95s, those biohazard type suits... Better managed hospital in terms of acquisition of PPE? Do those working in ITU get priority over more stuff?

 

[quimcunx]

Through work, for sure. No problems with infection control failure I don't think.
My honest opinion is that coughing is an "aerosol generating procedure", and that close contact with multiple cohorted virally shedding patients with a viral pneumonia causes an increased risk of transmission even when wearing a plastic apron, gloves and a surgical mask.

What is the current situation regarding PPE? I thought this was what they declared was proper PPE when we couldn't source enough actual proper PPE?

E2a sorry just saw everyone also jumped on this.

 

[LDC]

Why then, when the news goes into hospitals now am I seeing people in far, far more PPE than that? Visors, N95s, those biohazard type suits... Better managed hospital in terms of acquisition of PPE? Do those working in ITU get priority over more stuff?

They'll mostly be ICU staff who wear better PPE due to the procedures they do with patients, what is called 'aerosol generating procedures'. Staff in general contact in wards and departments don't wear that, although I know in some Trusts it might be a bit different.