Possible vaccines/treatment(s) for Coronavirus

[PD58]

I think more challenging will be that it has to be kept at below - 80C - not something the GP is going to be able to do?

 

[prunus]

Worth noting that unlike most countries, the UK has only ordered enough vaccine for half the population. So you’ll have no chance of getting this Pfizer vaccine if you’re aged under 50 without a specified high-risk health condition (or a health/care worker). This applies to all vaccines the UK government have ordered except the Oxford vaccine which they ordered more of before deciding on this policy.

Less than a quarter of the country I think - 30m doses and 2 doses required per person.

Pfizer reckon they can make enough for about 650m people by the end of next year - NB this is a ‘cold chain’ vaccine - needs to be stored at -80 and handled very carefully, so the majority of those doses are going to be in the developed world. I would imagine our (UK) best hope for mass vaccination outside critically vulnerable groups is that the Oxford vaccine comes up trumps too.

But the fact that it works, and apparently works so well, is huge news - that really was the big who knows?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I think more challenging will be that it has to be kept at below - 80C - not something the GP is going to be able to do?

Liquid nitrogen storage is quite commonplace now I’d have thought?

 

[platinumsage]

And I believe the vaccine in the news today requires 2 doses, so the 30 million orders will only cover 15 million people.

They added 10 million doses to that at some point.

 

[prunus]

Liquid nitrogen storage is quite commonplace now I’d have thought?

You don’t need to go as extreme as that! LN2 is -200. -80 freezers are not uncommon - the lab I used to work in had loads of them all over the place.

I suppose transport rather than storage is going to be the limiting factor - we used to get our nucleotides delivered in dry ice pellets (-78 or lower), which is I imagine how it’ll be done. Will look very space-age opening the truck.

 

[Crispy]

Good overview of the logistics challenge in this video

 

[Wilf]

To manage expectations - only 94 patients caught covid so far in the study. They need 164 to release results. With small numbers like these the 90% result is very open to big changes when the next data set is analysed. It'll only take a few extra cases to knock the number down. Good start though.

Though presumably, when they get to 164, if it remains above 80% say, that's still a pretty good outcome? You'd need a bigger % of the population inoculated to get towards herd immunity and the rest, but they would go ahead with it.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Good overview of the logistics challenge in this video

Thanks for posting that, that's very good.

William of Walworth, that video helps to answer your questions about why it'll take so long to roll-out the vaccination programme.

 

[LDC]

JCVI been mentioned on the daily briefing. Here's their provisional priority list for vaccination in the UK.

[Withdrawn] JCVI: updated interim advice on priority groups for COVID-19 vaccination

www.gov.uk

 

[Johnny Doe]

. Edited as link wouldn't work : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-54869918

This guy sounds positive and appears to be quailified to judge....

 

[cyril_smear]

What happens when in 12 months time when babies start being born with deformities

 

[Wilf]

That looks like a rather 'administrative solution' to me and one that would piss me off if I was a 30 year with a serious condition. Might well be right that mass inoculation predominantly by age works best, but it doesn't in itself meet the individual risks faced by younger people (though the speediest delivery to the whole population is in everyone's interest of course).

The committee strongly agree that a simple age-based programme will likely result in faster delivery and better uptake in those at the highest risk...

1. older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers1
2. all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers1
3. all those 75 years of age and over
4. all those 70 years of age and over
5. all those 65 years of age and over
6. high-risk adults under 65 years of age
7. moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age
8. all those 60 years of age and over
9. all those 55 years of age and over
10. all those 50 years of age and over
11. rest of the population (priority to be determined)

Edit: that was from the link mentioned above - JCVI: updated interim advice on priority groups for COVID-19 vaccination

 

[Wilf]

What happens when in 12 months time when babies start being born with deformities

… erm, do you imagine they will?

 

[Teaboy]

What happens when in 12 months time when babies start being born with deformities

We will be able to say with a great level of confidence that its not the vaccine that caused it. People young enough to be having children are very unlikely to be getting the vaccine in 2021.

 

[cyril_smear]

… erm, do you imagine they will?

Did they imagine it would happen in the 60s with thalidomide? It’s my understanding that these trials generally take years before approval.

 

[Teaboy]

Did they imagine it would happen in the 60s with thalidomide? It’s my understanding that these trials generally take years before approval.

People always dredge up thalidomide whilst ignoring all the other incredible breakthroughs since then. I feel like an old man but thalidomide (still on the market by the way as its a decent drug) was a couple of decades before I was born.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Did they imagine it would happen in the 60s with thalidomide? It’s my understanding that these trials generally take years before approval.

Science has somewhat moved on since then.

 

[CNT36]

What happens when in 12 months time when babies start being born with deformities

We'll know where to find you.

 

[Wilf]

Did they imagine it would happen in the 60s with thalidomide? It’s my understanding that these trials generally take years before approval.

The risks vs benefits of this accelerated process are well known and I'll be mildly apprehensive when it comes to my turn to get the vaccine. But going on about Thalidomide really doesn't help.

 

[Johnny Doe]

The risks vs benefits of this accelerated process are well known and I'll be mildly apprehensive when it comes to my turn to get the vaccine. But going on about Thalidomide really doesn't help.

Also worth noting that those at greatest risk from the virus would be the the earliest to get the vaccine, looking at the order of priority of above, so the allocation of the that risk seems fair.

 

[frogwoman]

How do they know it is 90% effective? How many people have had the vaccine so far, and do they have any idea how long it lasts?

 

[Epona]

Did they imagine it would happen in the 60s with thalidomide? It’s my understanding that these trials generally take years before approval.

The main issue with thalidomide and the impact of it was that it was discovered to have a side effect of inhibiting nausea, and was branded and marketed as a remedy for morning sickness.

A Covid vaccine is not going to be targeted at women in early pregnancy in the same way.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The fact that this Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine needs to be stored at around -90F / -68c is going to be a major problem.

Let's hope the Oxford vaccine proves safe & effective, because a quick google indicates that can be stored at between -2 and-8c, far more useful.

 

[Supine]

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine

 

[Badgers]

Any details on the shareholders?

 

[cyril_smear]

We'll know where to find you.

I don’t get it?

 

[cyril_smear]

The main issue with thalidomide and the impact of it was that it was discovered to have a side effect of inhibiting nausea, and was branded and marketed as a remedy for morning sickness.

A Covid vaccine is not going to be targeted at women in early pregnancy in the same way.

But could be administered to women in early stage pregnancy potentially

 

[Wilf]

Also worth noting that those at greatest risk from the virus would be the the earliest to get the vaccine, looking at the order of priority of above, so the allocation of the that risk seems fair.

… though I'm not convinced that list does capture that fully, for example the 30 year old who is highly vulnerable doesn't come near the top. But that's just going off the list, there may be scope for GPs to prioritise. Just got a sense this is going to be so big logistically they are keen to stick with broad brush risk for most people.

 

[cyril_smear]

The risks vs benefits of this accelerated process are well known and I'll be mildly apprehensive when it comes to my turn to get the vaccine. But going on about Thalidomide really doesn't help.

I wasn’t “going on about thalidomide” as you put it. I’m saying, as per the post I made, that these medical trials usually are very thorough, and not just done over a matter of months. They’ve also, as I believe, only being carried out on healthy young people.

I’m not one of those mental anti vax people, but, like yourself, I won’t be in a rush to get it.

 

[Teaboy]

I wasn’t “going on about thalidomide” as you put it. I’m saying, as per the post I made, that these medical trials usually are very thorough, and not just done over a matter of months. They’ve also, as I believe, only being carried out on healthy young people.

I’m not one of those mental anti vax people, but, like yourself, I won’t be in a rush to get it.

Yes, the situation is far from ideal. In an ideal world there would be a lot longer to go through the various processes but due to the level of deaths and everything else that is happening at the moment we do not really have the luxury of time. Globally something like 5k people are dying daily and quite frankly that is only the tip of the iceberg, so things have to be balanced.

The older you gets the much much greater chance there is of having a bad outcome from being infected with covid. Those in higher risk groups will of course have to weigh up the odds but its a very privileged position to be in to be more concerned about a vaccine than the virus.