people who voted tory

[frogwoman]

The confusing thing is that this behaviour has become so widespread on the left that it isn't only actual activists engaging in it, it seeps into those (middle-class almost exclusively of course) who are mates with activists. Got called sexist by one of these types for saying 'the wife' the other day, same one who accused all football supporters of being racist and sexist. It really is a cancer but it's a virulent one and I cannot see it getting better, it's going to get worse.

Yeah but your making a big mistake if you think its just m/c people coming out with this stuff tbh. Only a couple of the people ive been hearing this stuff off in the last couple days are what id say are middle class tbh.

 

[BigTom]

This isn't a specifically leftist position. In fact I'd argue that it is a very right-wing position! So yes he will ultimately have to end up committing to/fetishising activism. Turkish islamists did the same in the 90s when they were a marginal force and being hounded left, right and centre by the Kemalist establishment. Now Turkey is even more neoliberal than it was in the 90s and the islamists are well-integrated into capital and the ruling-class. Until you look to eradicate parliamentary and procedural democratic muck then you'll just end up eventually serving the establishment.

You can't just hope to separate content from form (nevermind that the two are inseparable) and be done with it.

I think that capital/ruling elite has become increasingly good at incorporating just enough of dissenting voices to nullify their power. I don't know anything about Turkey specifically though. I'm not sure that this means that you have to follow an activism path though, but then with the edit of this post and others, I think we're actually more in agreement that it may have seem when I first replied. Definitely agree on the last sentence, and about praxis... being a good marxist of course I see these pairs as existing in a dialectical relationship

Don't patronise and misrepresent me mate. You know that is not what I was saying. And anyway, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't help and intensify the struggle for people in need. What I object to is trying to persuade your reactionary tory-voting w/c neighbour.

I disagree. But it's about how you go about doing it. One little thing from this election that I thought was telling was UKIPs disability policy, which was to scrap ESA/WCA and replace it with something better. Now they are as anti-benefits as the Tories/Labour but yet they have this progressive sided policy, reason being that their disability spokesperson, Star Etheridge, is a wheelchair user and has experienced the nightmare of ESA/WCA herself and knows how shit it is. I know other anti-benefits tory types who've had family/friends put through that wringer and come round to realising that it needs to change; I've convinced similar people to oppose workfare because it doesn't work and undermines jobs. It can - and should - be done, but you have to pick your battles and often as not it needs to be someone having personal experience of it, or someone they know well so they have close secondhand experience.

Re: protest - people on both sides going on about it being useless if it doesn't affect real change. That change is not always quantifiable as in directly leading to a change in law. It breeds solidarity and gives people strength to fight on a personal level.
And it's important to register our dissent in these ways, even if the powers that be ignore us. Better than meekly rolling over and letting them shaft us.

Agree, problem is that demo is always sold as being to bring about change, then when it doesn't, people feel that they've lost, no point, all that time/energy/money they put in, why bother again, and then any gains you've made in terms of solidarity are lost. The idea of what that kind of dissent does needs to change.

 

[Aspiration1998]

I voted Tory as a first time voter (long time lurker of this forum & supporter of socialism) for 2 reasons:

1) Economic stability is the keystone upon which socialism can be built. The tory's provide this, through their short-term management of the deficit and stabilising of bond markets.
2) As a person interested in social justice, particularly feminism and gay rights, I have been put off Labour by the attitude displayed on this board. While Labour and the Left are frantically trying (as seen a few posts above this) to link low-stakes opposition to casual sexism and homophobia to their historical failure to garner any support, the Tories have actually been consciously getting on board with social justice.

It is sad that the Tory party, rather than the UK left or the Labour party, could provide a solid base for social justice and socialism, but there you. A testament to the stagnant state of trotpolitic.

 

[seventh bullet]

Yes.

 

[Belushi]

Bullshit.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I voted Tory as a first time voter (long time lurker of this forum & supporter of socialism) for 2 reasons:

1) Economic stability is the keystone upon which socialism can be built. The tory's provide this, through their short-term management of the deficit and stabilising of bond markets.
2) As a person interested in social justice, particularly feminism and gay rights, I have been put off Labour by the attitude displayed on this board. While Labour and the Left are frantically trying (as seen a few posts above this) to link low-stakes opposition to casual sexism and homophobia to their historical failure to garner any support, the Tories have actually been consciously getting on board with social justice.

It is sad that the Tory party, rather than the UK left or the Labour party, could provide a solid base for social justice and socialism, but there you. A testament to the stagnant state of trotpolitic.

You over-egged the pudding with the Cameron avatar. A little more restraint, and you could have got a dozen pages of venom out of this fancy.

 

[J Ed]

I voted Tory as a first time voter (long time lurker of this forum & supporter of socialism) for 2 reasons:

1) Economic stability is the keystone upon which socialism can be built. The tory's provide this, through their short-term management of the deficit and stabilising of bond markets.
2) As a person interested in social justice, particularly feminism and gay rights, I have been put off Labour by the attitude displayed on this board. While Labour and the Left are frantically trying (as seen a few posts above this) to link low-stakes opposition to casual sexism and homophobia to their historical failure to garner any support, the Tories have actually been consciously getting on board with social justice.

It is sad that the Tory party, rather than the UK left or the Labour party, could provide a solid base for social justice and socialism, but there you. A testament to the stagnant state of trotpolitic.

Trolling at 8am on a Monday? Jesus. Can't even blame it on a mixture of boredom and booze

 

[frogwoman]

I fully agree that the attitude to racism and sexism on parts if the left including a few people on here is really reactionary tbh. But i think your just a troll.

 

[Aspiration1998]

I fully agree that the attitude to racism and sexism on parts if the left including a few people on here is really reactionary tbh. But i think your just a troll.

Perhaps, at the core of all jokes, there is a truth. Very Zizekian.

 

[BigMoaner]

i would trust the tories more with the economy than i would labor at this present time.

my wage packet is stretching further than it has done for years, it seems.

a lot of people i know who didnt have jobs have now got jobs. lots less people i know worried about redundancy too.

i have noticed schools improving a bit around my area

(i could be confusing cause and correlation, though)

austerity - booo
being cuntish to poor people - boooo
fucking up the NHS - boooooo

that's why this year i voted green.

but i have to say there are some things that do seem better, at least since 2008 anyway. i am privilaged in that i live in the job heavy London though. it's grim up north. but then it would be whoever got in, i think.

as someone said the other day, watching the leaders debates, tehy all just look like slimey estate agents.

 

[J Ed]

i would trust the tories more with the economy than i would labor at this present time.

my wage packet is stretching further than it has done for years, it seems.

Might want to google income in real terms.

 

[J Ed]

as someone said the other day, watching the leaders debates, tehy all just look like slimey estate agents.

Agree with this tho, altho I would say corporate HR dickheads.

 

[frogwoman]

Lol might as well have people who appear to vaguely know what they're doing even if theyre scum as opposed to the likes of jim murphy and ed milliband.

 

[BigMoaner]

this sort of thing make me want to get involved in the left

 

[ManchesterBeth]

I fully agree that the attitude to racism and sexism on parts if the left including a few people on here is really reactionary tbh. But i think your just a troll.

Fancy dropping me a PM?

EDIT: I'll drop you one instead.

 

[chilango]

Might want to google income in real terms.

Maybe.

...but he's not alone in feeling like the economy is "recovering".

Now it may well be illusory, it may well be limited geographically and/or socially.

It may well be bollocks.

But (some) people believe it.

 

[Mr Moose]

in years gone by i'd have suggested simply waiting them out as the average age of a tory voter famously in the 60s. i no longer know whether that's a course you wish to pursue.

oh: and yes, yes electoral politicks is an awful waste of space, time, energy and money.

This is an interesting point and I'm glad you raised it. It certainly was the case that many of us once hoped and believed that the Tory vote would just wither away. After all their voters are getting on and they are of course famously wrong about everything.

Sadly it didn't work out that way, or at least, only partially. It's dismaying how rightward inclined many young people are. And not just hide in the shadows inclined either. They don't seem embarrassed. For them left wing politics is the establishment, anti freedom and not in keeping with a do it yourself aspiration to 'get on'. Whether this is illusory or not I'd guess that it's the Labour vote which is ageing and when you add the UKIP vote to the Tory one then there are a lot of conservatives out there.

Perhaps we can just ignore these heartless bastards, but it's not clear they will join in with either socialist parliamentary or extra parliamentary activity unless they are listened to.

That doesn't mean a jump to the right is the answer either.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is an interesting point and I'm glad you raised it. It certainly was the case that many of us once hoped and believed that the Tory vote would just wither away. After all their voters are getting on and they are of course famously wrong about everything.

Sadly it didn't work out that way, or at least, only partially. It's dismaying how rightward inclined many young people are. And not just hide in the shadows inclined either. They don't seem embarrassed. For them left wing politics is the establishment, anti freedom and not in keeping with a do it yourself aspiration to 'get on'. Whether this is illusory or not I'd guess that it's the Labour vote which is ageing and when you add the UKIP vote to the Tory one then there are a lot of conservatives out there.

Perhaps we can just ignore these heartless bastards, but it's not clear they will join in with either socialist parliamentary or extra parliamentary activity unless they are listened to.

That doesn't mean a jump to the right is the answer either.

let's do the timewarp again

 

[BigMoaner]

I SOMETIMES THINK THE GREENS ARE THE ANSWER.

 

[Dandred]

Well, spunking cock is always a way to give yourself representation.

 

[chilango]

I SOMETIMES THINK THE GREENS ARE THE ANSWER.

Very much depends what the question is.

 

[Mr Moose]

If the question is 'whose leader is even more annoying than Cameron?'

 

[BigMoaner]

Very much depends what the question is.

WHAT IS A PROPER LEFT WING ALTERNATIVE TO LABOR

 

[chilango]

...as for ageing Tories.

Round here there seemed to be a substantial student vote for the Tories. The only two window posters I saw for them were in student flats. Now, Reading is unfortunately full of braying rural middle class, privately educated "here for the rowing scholarship" types. But still...one of the student lettings agencies had huge vote Tory banners in its windows and so on.

 

[BigMoaner]

If the question is 'whose leader is even more annoying than Cameron?'

CONSTANTLY HIDES HER EXPENSIVE PRIVATE SCHOOL EDUCATION.

 

[Pickman's model]

Trolling at 8am on a Monday? Jesus. Can't even blame it on a mixture of boredom and booze

why not?

 

[chilango]

.

WHAT IS A PROPER LEFT WING ALTERNATIVE TO LABOR

Then "The Greens" isn't the answer. Not really.

I voted for them though.

 

[Pickman's model]

I SOMETIMES THINK THE GREENS ARE THE ANSWER.

but what's the question? what sorts of vegetable do children not like but should eat more of?

 

[BigMoaner]

but what's the question? what sorts of vegetable do children not like but should eat more of?

NO.

 

[BigMoaner]

CAMERON COMES ACROSS AS A RIGHT CUNT MANY TIMES.