Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's the picture of dorian grey
people who voted tory
- Thread starter frogwoman
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
go on then - tumblr
tbtommyb
Well-Known Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32700111
I think some of this is strong:
It's too easy to demonise Tory voters and think they're only out for themselves. I think the majority genuinely think that voting Tory will improve the lives of others. i mean you can argue about whether jobs should give dignity, or whether families should be put centre stage, but this is the kind of language that the left needs to take back from the right.
labour seems to think that to speak like that you need to shift to the right. you don't, you just need to explain how doing all of that above is best achieved through left-wing policies.
I think some of this is strong:
It's too easy to demonise Tory voters and think they're only out for themselves. I think the majority genuinely think that voting Tory will improve the lives of others. i mean you can argue about whether jobs should give dignity, or whether families should be put centre stage, but this is the kind of language that the left needs to take back from the right.
labour seems to think that to speak like that you need to shift to the right. you don't, you just need to explain how doing all of that above is best achieved through left-wing policies.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
magneto gives some classic will-to-power racial supremacist quotes
bonus points for anyone uysing him to say tory stuff
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, as someone else brought-up in a working class, (largely) tory voting household, I was interested in what Moore had to say. I can't say that I found all of her points were well made, but this section caught my eye, and to an extent rang true with my experience...Those poll options
I don't hate Tories (I don't mean the political party I do hate them, but people who voted Tory). I'd have to hate a lot of people I know.
Read this article in the guardian today which seemed to talk some sense about the lefts view on Tory voters. Saying that the idea that everyone good just is Labour and not Tory is bollocks, and
I thought they were good points.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so eloquent
many people then, this some? perhaps they're right to think that way, if they're foul and hideous within.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
so eloquent
It's not helpful if the people you are appealing to suspect you of widely thinking other people are foul and hideous. They worry they will be considered foul and hideous even without wealth or influence if they disagree with you.
UKIP have 5m voters happy in the knowledge that their vote goes to people too flawed to look down on any of them.
The 'left alone by the state' voters must be delighted at the outcome...
What the...?
When did the idiot say that?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
can i say i think david cameron's right. we HAVE been too tolerant. it is now time to take a stand and say to the conservative party and their labour lickspittle colleagues that we will no longer tolerate their treating people's lives as playthings for the rich and famous and for transnational and multinational corporations.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I saw my dad yesterday and we invariably ended up talking about the election. He voted Tory and always has done, yet finds the notion of a private NHS vile and the fact that we have foodbanks at all abhorrent. I was also telling him about the state of local MH services which is pretty dire and he was appalled.
I don't understand why he votes Tory because the cuts they carry out don't create the sort of society he would like to live in. He doesn't think Labour are really any different (which is a perfectly fair and true analysis) but... I don't know really, it makes no sense.
I don't understand why he votes Tory because the cuts they carry out don't create the sort of society he would like to live in. He doesn't think Labour are really any different (which is a perfectly fair and true analysis) but... I don't know really, it makes no sense.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Link to it!
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
The Greens did get 1mn votes though...A very interesting analysis. I do have three points:
Firstly, while you allude to it, I think it would benefit the article to point out that just as Smith and Blair dragged Labour to the Right, so Cameron dragged the Tories to the Left (and both dragged their parties to the centre).
Secondly, I disagree with you on Scotland and the next referendum on Scottish independence, should there be one. Don't confuse voting for the SNP with voting for independence; indeed, I saw a comment the other day on the Guardian (which I can no longer find) showing that the SNP's vote share of the electorate actually went down compared with last year's referendum. More generally, why would a Scottish left-winger vote for Labour when the SNP's policies are more socialist?
I'm not sure I agree with you when you state:
Are you sure it isn't something more prosaic, like the rise of TV and alternative avenues of evening entertainment? Why go to the political club and spend money on drinks etc when you can have an evening's entertainment at home for free? And there are also the drink-drive laws to consider.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Cameron dragged the party to the left? What are you on?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he swerved the charabanc while drunk?
Compare Cameron to Tebbit et al.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
depends on what you mean by 'left', and on what issue.
it is undeniable that the Tories are more 'left' on issues like Gay Marriage etc.. than they were under people like IDS and Michael Howard, though it should be noted that the tories have long had a libertarian streak in the party so 'dragged' might be unneccesary, rather it could just be he's just chosen to listen to the libertarian wing rather than the authoratarian wing.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Yes. Both massive fans of shrinking the state
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
He took a more socially liberal stance, which removed one weapon which is always used against the 'nasty' party (that it is a bunch of bigots, homophobic and racist). This also caused some of the fruitloop supporters to leave for UKIP which might also have been useful to them (and having UKIP spouting this crap to the right of them made them look good in comparison, and tied up protestors that might have otherwise been on their case). I'll accept the 'rewarding marriage' shite as a token gesture going against this trend to keep some of the god squad on board.
Economically they're still further right than any previous government and still pulling the state apart and giving it away to friends, demonising the poor as a way to achieve this. Same old shit.
Economically they're still further right than any previous government and still pulling the state apart and giving it away to friends, demonising the poor as a way to achieve this. Same old shit.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Tebbit wasn't Prime Minister, and had/has little influence on policy.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
My point regarding the SNP is that with the 'english votes for english laws' proposal its going to be very difficult for scotland to stay in the UK long term with almost no representation of the westminster parties and calls within both those parties to disassociate themselves from them. Devolution was meant to allay moves to independence but it's actually had the opposite effect.
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