Pedestrian jailed for causing death of cyclist

[Orang Utan]

What happens, though, is a constant stream of people who think is friendly to ring bells at me so that I don’t get in their way. Well, it’s not friendly.

There are other pedestrians who take the opposite view though and think it is rude to pass anyone without sounding their bell.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

People are saying it’s obvious from the video or photo.

No they are not. The woman admitted it in a police interview.

She said she "may have unintentionally put" out her hand to protect herself. Ms Grey believed she had made light contact with Mrs Ward.

Huntingdon: Cyclist death accused was 'anxious' for her own safety, jury told

Auriol Grey is accused of gesturing in a "hostile" way to a cyclist who fell into the path of a car.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Where are you getting this about her walking off to the shops? I read or had read to me at least 4 or 5 articles on this and not encountered this outside this thread. Google/ my going failed to help as well.


At least one article goes with partially blind. I don't know if this is a bottle half/full empty situation or actually means something different.

It was in the article I first read about it (which prompted me to check out this thread when I saw it). The article I read initially just mentioned her wildly gesticulating, didn't many any physical contact - although when I looked at the video, I thought there might have been, so when I saw physical contact mentioned here, I went and checked out a few more articles looks for that. So I've read a few articles now, can't remember which one's which, but the details do vary.

 

[Crispy]

+1 for ringing my bell when turning off a main road. Plenty of people stroll out into the road without looking, and it's more dangerous for me to come to a stop in traffic than it is for them to stop at the pavement edge for a few seconds.

For the "coming up behind" situation I usually say something like "hello! passing on your right!" rather than use the bell. Yeah it's a polite thing in the netherlands, but we're not the netherlands yet so would rather not give the wrong impression.

The only "shared spaces" that I've seen work are either in the middle of nowhere with very few pedestrians anyway, or are so big that they could have just put a proper cycle lane in it anyway. Ridiculous idea in a city.

 

[Dogsauce]

Canal paths are one of the very few places I'm against bikes because there is very rarely room.

Depends on the canal really, the one into Leeds along the Aire Valley has tons of room and a good surface, part of a National Cycle route (for whatever that is worth). Regent’s Canal in the middle of London less so (though fine once you get out towards Tottenham).

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yeah, my wife gets tons more abuse than me on the bike, it's shocking. I think its an ego/power thing, they get off on intimidating someone.

And I’ve also had conversations with your missus of shared experiences with the egos of certain men who cycle Egos are definitely an issue for lots of people.

But intersectionality innit. I’m usually wary about applying the ideas of privilege and marginalisation to motorists and cyclists because they’re not unchangeable identities but roles we put on and take off, but as the below article says

More than half of motorists view cyclists as subhuman 'cockroaches'

Drivers' strong negative opinions of cyclists can result in them committing deliberate acts of aggression against them.

www.sciencefocus.com

there are definitely some of those dynamics going on and if you add multiple areas of oppression, you get a shittier experience.

+1 for ringing my bell when turning off a main road. Plenty of people stroll out into the road without looking, and it's more dangerous for me to come to a stop in traffic than it is for them to stop at the pavement edge for a few seconds.

For the "coming up behind" situation I usually say something like "hello! passing on your right!" rather than use the bell.

Ooo I like this, will start doing it I think. Though maybe not given how much I struggle with my left and right

 

[Plumdaff]

I like that idea too but also part of me thinks a bell is less ignorable than a woman's voice . Going on a long ride tomorrow morning so will give it a try though.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Well that was a bizarre read. People are wound up by a silent, dangerous piece of metal giving them warning they are behind them/in their vicinity? Really?

Is it the bell that's the problem? There's millions of bikes in Asia and to my knowledge most don't have bells. Instead they rely on the rider making some vocal noise, a whistle or whatever, to warn you of any apparent danger. Nobody takes offence.

Well I quite enjoyed Kabbeses and Spookyfrank's descriptions of cyclists they've encountered, they both write very well.

 

[dessiato]

you can hear cars as they have engines. if were silent like bikes then that would be a problem, they need to make some sound. that is what bells are for. horns have a different use and a much more intrusive sound (which as mentioned is in the highway code)

This is fine if everyone can hear and see. You should not assume that the pedestrian in front of you can, nor should you assume that they can get out of your way. If you're approaching from behind you can see the person you're approaching, you (general you not specifically you) should take responsibility for approaching and passing safely.

 

[campanula]

Ah, I skipped a bit but anyway, like all cyclists, we are also pedestrians and even drivers. I use a bell because I hate and loathe bikes coming up behind me on our numerous shared routes. I cannot hear a bike until it is practically upon me and without warning, I literally cannot help my fear reaction of attempting to get out of the way...with predictable consequences. Hearing a bell gives me time to rally my response (which is to hold my line since it is the duty of the person who can see me to move out of the way. I amnot really bothered whether this might be considered rude since hurt feelings do not compare with concussion or worse. Despite my blithe response of 'taking out a pedestrian', I wouldn't be doing this as some sort of rage-y entitlement, but because of a considered risk assessment (which has kept myself and my kids fairly safe in my cycling city).
The antagonism on this thread is quite upsetting, tbh. The ability to behave with consideration is not limited to cyclists, walkers, joggers or drivers...there are perfectly obvious and reasonable ways to share a space. My small children had a better understanding of relative safety priorities, sightlines, speed considerations and civilised manners...possibly because cycling proficiency was always part of their school curriculum and, as a non-driver, in a cycle-friendly (ish) town, there is already a certain amount of tolerance and willingness to share with skaters, scooters, skateboarders and joggers with dogs on extending leads (my latest semi-hazardous encounter).

 

[Me76]

The fact that this thread has veered so much from the OP is interesting.

I am only a pedestrian but I see dickish actions from other pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

I also see a lot of sensible stuff going on. As always, the negative stuff is called out more than the positive.

Going back to the OP, it's a horrible thing that happened and the aggressor in the situation was out of order and I am sure this type of thing happens daily across the country. In this situation someone died and someone got punished for the consequences that might not have happened if they had done exactly the same thing on any other day.

My biases, but I can imagine she did that type of shouting regularly and never thought anything of it.

I swear and comment constantly at all of the people (pedestrians, cyclists, drivers) who I think are acting wrongly during my travels. There may be one day when consequences happen from that, whether it's an aggressive road rage type incident or someone reacting that causes harm or damage.

It's made me think about what I think is harmless maybe not being so harmless.

 

[Plumdaff]

Non scientific experiment on my bike ride today, that included some sections of shared use path. Even on quiet empty stretches of path, no one pays attention to a woman's voice. You have to use the bell to alert people to your presence.

 

[Spymaster]

+1 for ringing my bell when turning off a main road. Plenty of people stroll out into the road without looking, and it's more dangerous for me to come to a stop in traffic than it is for them to stop at the pavement edge for a few seconds.

This is against the HC. The peds have the right of way and you should stop for them, not ring your bell at them.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Non scientific experiment on my bike ride today, that included some sections of shared use path. Even on quiet empty stretches of path, no one pays attention to a woman's voice. You have to use the bell to alert people to your presence.

On certain days I’d be all in favour of running down the misogynists

 

[Agent Sparrow]

This is against the HC. The peds have the right of way and you should stop for them, not ring your bell at them.

Tbf it’s also clearly in the Highway Code to stop and look before crossing. IME the minority who actually do this then hold back and willingly let a cyclist turn off from a busy road, because they recognise it’s no inconvenience for them and much safer for the cyclist, whatever the Highway Code’s rather clumsy attempts to primarily make cars give way.

 

[Spymaster]

Tbf it’s also clearly in the Highway Code to stop and look before crossing. IME the minority who actually do this then hold back and willingly let a cyclist turn off from a busy road, because they recognise it’s no inconvenience for them and much safer for the cyclist, whatever the Highway Code’s rather clumsy attempts to primarily make cars give way.

So that bit of the HC doesn't/shouldn't apply to cyclists?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

So that bit of the HC doesn't/shouldn't apply to cyclists?

Now where on earth have I said that?

It’s written so it has to apply to cyclists. But I’ll hold my opinion that it wasn’t the best bit of thinking in the revisions, in regards to keeping the more vulnerable road user safe in that situation. And that it seems like a generalisation from rewritten rules for cars. And is a weirdly/badly written rule anyway because it blatantly doesn’t apply in practice to busy junctions.

And cars haven’t seemed to pay any attention to the change anyway. It’s all very well for peds to legally have the right of way but that’s not much consolation if they get run over by a driver who hasn’t got the meno. But they’re more likely to actually pause and look when they hear an engine.

 

[Spymaster]

Now where on earth have I said that?

It’s written so it has to apply to cyclists. But I’ll hold my opinion that it wasn’t the best bit of thinking in the revisions, in regards to keeping the more vulnerable road user safe in that situation. And that it seems like a generalisation from rewritten rules for cars. And is a weirdly/badly written rule anyway because it blatantly doesn’t apply in practice to busy junctions.

And cars haven’t seemed to pay any attention to the change anyway. It’s all very well for peds to legally have the right of way but that’s not much consolation if they get run over by a driver who hasn’t got the meno. But they’re more likely to actually pause and look when they hear an engine.

I see. Are there any other laws that cyclists should be able to dismiss with a ring of their bell?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I see. Are there any other laws that cyclists should be able to dismiss with a ring of their bell?

If you think you’re going to get 5 pages of argument out of me by twisting my words and continuing your rabid anti-cyclist persona (or rather I hope it’s a persona ), I’m afraid I’m going to disappoint you. a) I’m far too busy, b) these sorts of arguments are pointless, and c) too blokey

Have a happy Tuesday

 

[maomao]

And cars haven’t seemed to pay any attention to the change anyway.

In fact a good third of them have (and that's where I live in one of the most car centric suburbs of London). Which just makes it more confusing as a pedestrian because getting an impatient wave of the hand from one of the ones who has taken the new rule on board is now as likely as walking out in front of a car that hasn't.

 

[Spymaster]

If you think you’re going to get 5 pages of argument out of me by twisting my words and continuing your rabid anti-cyclist persona (or rather I hope it’s a persona ), I’m afraid I’m going to disappoint you. a) I’m far too busy, b) these sorts of arguments are pointless, and c) too blokey

Have a happy Tuesday

Fwiw, I agree with you on the amendment. It’s stupid and potentially dangerous. Peds don’t know about it and drivers who do, have one eye on the rear view mirror when giving way because they’re worried about getting hit. This leads to both parties trying to give way and getting annoyed, and often a line of traffic backing-up.

It’s the cyclist ringing his bell to warn the pedestrian that he’s about to make an illegal move and should be afforded a clear path to do so, that amused me.

 

[Pickman's model]

On certain days I’d be all in favour of running down the misogynists

All the days with a y in them?

 

[gentlegreen]

Tbf it’s also clearly in the Highway Code to stop and look before crossing. IME the minority who actually do this then hold back and willingly let a cyclist turn off from a busy road, because they recognise it’s no inconvenience for them and much safer for the cyclist, whatever the Highway Code’s rather clumsy attempts to primarily make cars give way.

I was reminded today of a new class of road user apt to turn into side roads without slowing down or indicating...
Those electric scooters - I doubt I will ever try riding one, but hand signals must be very difficult... I saw the rider of an illegal one come to blows with a pedestrian in my street last year.

I'm a bolshy pedestrian, but I try to facilitate the free-flow of traffic and generally let motor vehicles turn in - though it's an issue now because you're effectively "flashing" them - and I did recently allow a car to turn in from across the road on my left and failed to take proper account of a cyclist coming towards me who might have ended up right-hooked ...

 

[Tones]

Not justifying what she did, but I can sympathise with someone who is blind and has cerabral palsy being more pissed off than that average person by someone cycling in the pavement. Especially if she dodn't realise they were there legally. She must have felt especially vulnerable not being able to see bikes and having difficulty moving out of their way. Sending her to prison really helps nobody. It is really a problem with infrastructure.

 

[Winot]

Not justifying what she did, but I can sympathise with someone who is blind and has cerabral palsy being more pissed off than that average person by someone cycling in the pavement. Especially if she dodn't realise they were there legally. She must have felt especially vulnerable not being able to see bikes and having difficulty moving out of their way. Sending her to prison really helps nobody. It is really a problem with infrastructure.

Shared path was 2.4m wide and she could clearly see the cyclist.

 

[Tones]

Shared path was 2.4m wide and she could clearly see the cyclist.

Cyclist should've been able to slow and give her plenty of space then.

 

[Winot]

Cyclist should've beg able to slow and give her plenty of space then.

Stop victim blaming.

 

[gentlegreen]

Cyclist should've beg able to slow and give her plenty of space then.

she was a 77 year old retired midwife on a Raleigh shopper riding on the very edge of the pavement and she would have taken up at least as much space if she dismounted.

The woman who assaulted her may have had health issues but was over 20 years younger, robustly built and waving her arms about in the middle of the path.

I call troll ...

 

[maomao]

Cyclist should've beg able to slow and give her plenty of space then.

She was 77. I doubt she was doing much over 10mph. Pretty horrible trying to blame the victim here.

 

[Tones]

Stop victim blaming.

I do kind of think she was a bit to blame.