Pedestrian jailed for causing death of cyclist

[maomao]

My attitude is that (a) the Highway Code means something;

And yet you consider the use of bicycle bells rude?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yes just a couple of weeks ago I had an older man deliberately step out and try to block me passing despite me cycling slowly, using my bell and pointing out the shared use sign right next to us.

Yeah, they won’t do that to the 6’ plus bloke and/or the cyclist who really is cycling in an intimidating or arsehole-ish way. They do it to those who aren’t actually causing a problem and who often have lived experience of this sort of shit in other areas of life.

And/or plain misogyny

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I think if people just applied the "Dont be a dick" rule the world would be a better and safer place.

It's possible to cycle on pavements without being a dick. Causing no hinderence to other pavement users. Slowing right down when you must and patiently waiting for pedestrians to kindly make way.

It's possible to move aside to let cycles past.

Neither of these actions have a massive negative impact on your day really.

I speak as a cyclist who does sometimes mount the pavement at dangerous junctions or roads where I don't feel are safe. Roads where massive 4x4 swing around bends at speeds over lane divides with no concern over what may be around that corner etc etc.

It's more than possible to share if you aren't some cyclist dick who is constantly trying to beat their Strava time or pissed they may have to peddal back up to speed again after slowing.

Honestly I feel pavement ragers are dicks unless the cyclist is speeding like a loon with no regard for others.

OMG I agree with Gromit

 

[Pickman's model]

OMG I agree with Gromit

we are indeed living in the end times

 

[kabbes]

And yet you consider the use of bicycle bells rude?

If you were cycling on the road and every car that came up behind you honked you, would you view that as a positive little warning that they were there, just in case you hadn’t noticed?

 

[maomao]

If you were cycling on the road and every car that came up behind you honked you, would you view that as a positive little warning that they were there, in case you hadn’t noticed?

Does the highway code recommend that they do that?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And yet you consider the use of bicycle bells rude?

It can get annoying tbf when it's happening every couple of minutes.

Bikes do spoil a walk along the canal. (Worse than spoil if you have mobility issues, as we've heard.) There's no denying it. Shared paths are suboptimal for everyone.

 

[rutabowa]

If you were cycling on the road and every car that came up behind you honked you, would you view that as a positive little warning that they were there, just in case you hadn’t noticed?

you can hear cars as they have engines. if were silent like bikes then that would be a problem, they need to make some sound. that is what bells are for. horns have a different use and a much more intrusive sound (which as mentioned is in the highway code)

 

[kabbes]

you can hear cars as they have engines. if were silent like bikes then that would be a problem, they need to make some sound. that is what bells are for.

Well I can promise you that when I’m walking on a forest path, I can hear the middle-aged man-child huffing his way over the ruts and branches behind me a long time before he bothers ringing that bell.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Is that why people are saying she made contact? From videos where the view of the space between her left arm and the cyclist is totally obscured? Very good aye.

I think it's fairly undisputed that the actions of the pedestrian caused the cyclist to veer into fast moving traffic. Whether contact was made is a bit irrelevant.

 

[maomao]

It can get annoying tbf when it's happening every couple of minutes.

Bikes do spoil a walk along the canal. (Worse than spoil if you have mobility issues, as we've heard.) There's no denying it. Shared paths are suboptimal for everyone.

Canal paths are one of the very few places I'm against bikes because there is very rarely room.

 

[kabbes]

Does the highway code recommend that they do that?

What does the Highway Code say that car horns are for, remind me? And is that stated purpose entirely consistent with how they are used in practice?

 

[BigTom]

If you were cycling on the road and every car that came up behind you honked you, would you view that as a positive little warning that they were there, just in case you hadn’t noticed?

Slow down when necessary and let them know you are there; for example, by ringing your bell (it is recommended that a bell is fitted to your bike), or by calling out politely.

Ruke 63 Highway code cycling

Isn't that what the highway code asks cyclists to do?

 

[rutabowa]

Well I can promise you that when I’m walking on a forest path, I can hear the middle-aged man-child huffing his way over the ruts and branches behind me a long time before he bothers ringing that bell.

well I see you have a personal issue related to a specific event, but I have given you the information as it is in the highway code.

 

[maomao]

What does the Highway Code say that car horns are for, remind me? And is that stated purpose entirely consistent with how they are used in practice?

I'm not arguing about it, I'm just pointing out that your argument is internally inconsistent.

 

[rutabowa]

Canal paths are one of the very few places I'm against bikes because there is very rarely room.

agree

 

[seeformiles]

What happens, though, is a constant stream of people who think is friendly to ring bells at me so that I don’t get in their way. Well, it’s not friendly.

I spent a lot of time in the Netherlands at one point in my life and initially found the constant bicycle bell ringing rude and aggressive at first. However, after a while I realised it wasn’t meant that way at all and was just a friendly reminder that it was a shared space and necessary to keep traffic (cycle and pedestrian) moving in harmony. I think it’s still regarded as rude here (Mrs SFM certainly thinks so) but I’m fine with it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't really care what the highway code does or doesn't say tbh. This is stuff we should be able to work out. The most important bit there is the injunction to slow down.

I find people saying excuse me friendlier than ringing a bell fwiw

 

[kabbes]

Ruke 63 Highway code cycling

Isn't that what the highway code asks cyclists to do?

It’s the “Slow down where necessary” bit that I’m querying.

Remember: this began in response to a poster mocking pedestrians that hadn’t got out of his way until his third bell ring, at which point they had to pull themselves over to the edge of a narrow path to get out of his way.

Is that slowing down and using the bell as a courtesy? Or is it using the bell to say, “get out of my way and get out of it now”?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

you can hear cars as they have engines. if were silent like bikes then that would be a problem, they need to make some sound. that is what bells are for. horns have a different use and a much more intrusive sound (which as mentioned is in the highway code)

I am considering starting to use my bell for turning into side streets when there’s a pedestrian who could step out the second I turn, given (and as much as I try to avoid generalisations) hardly anybody checks for the clearly indicating cyclist before stepping out if they can’t hear engine noise. On quiet streets it’s an annoyance, but when turning off busy roads it can significantly increase the risk to the cyclist.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And yet you consider the use of bicycle bells rude?

Rightly or wrongly, a bicycle bell to me usually means 'move'. Else they have to slow down and be inconvenienced.

 

[liquidindian]

Remember: this began

It really began with someone in jail because their actions led to the death of a cyclist, but it doesn't take much to derail any discussion into Cyclists: Terrible or The Worst?

 

[two sheds]

Bell means 'hello I'm behind you' to me

 

[kabbes]

It really began with someone in jail because their actions led to the death of a cyclist, but it doesn't take much to derail any discussion into Cyclists: Terrible or The Worst?

My presence in this thread began as a response to exactly the thing I said began it.

Maybe the cyclists who just want to use their bell as a polite indicator of their presence should mostly be pissed off with the multitude using it to say “don’t get in my way”? Although, to be honest, I’m still mystified why you think I need to know about your presence unless you plan an overtaking manoeuvre that could potentially endanger me.

 

[BigTom]

It’s the “Slow down where necessary” bit that I’m querying.

Remember: this began in response to a poster mocking pedestrians that hadn’t got out of his way until his third bell ring, at which point they had to pull themselves over to the edge of a narrow path to get out of his way.

Is that slowing down and using the bell as a courtesy? Or is it using the bell to say, “get out of my way and get out of it now”?

But you've generalised way beyond that already, and it's your generalised statement that I'm questioning.

I don't understand what you are querying about that bit of the rule though?

The wording for car horns btw is very different as per rule 112

112. The horn
Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence.

For cyclists the bell is used to let someone else know you are there, for drivers the horn is a warning.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

People going too fast will use their bells. People not going too fast will either use their bells or say excuse me. There's a bias there when hearing a bell - it increases the chances that it's a dickhead approaching.

 

[maomao]

Rightly or wrongly, a bicycle bell to me usually means 'move'. Else they have to slow down and be inconvenienced.

In most places where you have to ring a bell you have to slow down anyway. I do think people routinely overestimate the danger from bicycles in the same way it's been proven they underestimate risks from cars.

 

[kabbes]

But you've generalised way beyond that already, and it's your generalised statement that I'm questioning.

I don't understand what you are querying about that bit of the rule though?

The wording for car horns btw is very different as per rule 112



For cyclists the bell is used to let someone else know you are there, for drivers the horn is a warning.

Rule 112, in full:

112. The horn​

Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence.

Never sound your horn aggressively. You must not use your horn:

• while stationary on the road
• when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am, except when another road user poses a danger

**
Is that how car drivers use it? No. So why should I interpret bell users as being any more compliant? Particularly when evidence abounds of bells being used as a high-minded “keep out of my way”.

I am walking in the countryside for a bit of peace and tranquillity. I don’t need to constantly hear bicycle bells just because you want to go faster than me.

 

[liquidindian]

I’m still mystified why you think I need to know about your presence

Because sometimes when I pass someone at a slow pootle they will still leap out of the way in fright because they had no idea I was there.

 

[kabbes]

Because sometimes when I pass someone at a slow pootle they will still leap out of the way in fright because they had no idea I was there.

Maybe you’re not as slow and unthreatening as you think you are.