Sara Sharif murder: ‘sadist’ father and stepmother jailed for life

[Mr.Bishie]

Lessons learnt?

Statistics about child deaths due to abuse or neglect | NSPCC Learning

This briefing looks at what data and statistics are available about child deaths due to abuse and neglect, to help professionals make evidence-based decisions about keeping children safe.

learning.nspcc.org.uk

 

[Spymaster]

Also, saying 'bring back the death penalty for child abusers' is all very well, but there's one huge problem: it could be used to keep victims quiet. "You don't want Daddy to die, do you?" Abusers could easily manipulate their victims into silence by saying that they'll die if the victim tells the police.

I disagree that it would cause a greater problem. A lot of them do that anyway.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don't think they should be executed, or beaten up in prison or any of that. It would serve no useful purpose. Their victim has gone where no amount of revenge can help her, if revenge ever helps anyone.

That being said I wouldn't be that upset if one of them tripped and fell face-first into a boiling pot of sugar water. These things happen. But tbh even the vengeful part of me would prefer they live in fear of reprisals than actually endure them. I would like them to know what it feels like when nowhere is safe or ever will be again. That seems fair.

 

[emanymton]

You know what the worst thing is about this? I'm not even surprised, because DV and rape aren't taken seriously. And incidentally, this is why the possibility of us emulating Argentina is so dangerous. Even more cuts to social services will mean more cases like Sarah Sharif's and nobody doing anything until it's too late.

I can't read the details. That poor little girl. How could you do that to a child?

It's horrific. I don't know if it is a reporting thing. But cases of prolonged torture (which this is) over years seem to be more common with children than with adults, I guess maybe because of the total power you can have over a child? But I don't get how it seems so many people can be more cruel to children than they would be to an adult.

 

[Petcha]

I don't think they should be executed, or beaten up in prison or any of that. It would serve no useful purpose. Their victim has gone where no amount of revenge can help her, if revenge ever helps anyone.

That being said I wouldn't be that upset if one of them tripped and fell face-first into a boiling pot of sugar water. These things happen. But tbh even the vengeful part of me would prefer they live in fear of reprisals than actually endure them. I would like them to know what it feels like when nowhere is safe or ever will be again. That seems fair.

Well, quite. I'd like them to be in in more openish prison so a little more justice could be applied. But the irony is that the higher profile the crime, the more protected they are.

On another note, I think it's fucking useful to televise the judge's summary and his explanation as to why he was imposing the sentence he was, and not more. Reading between the lines, he was saying 'throw away the keys', but the law is the law.

 

[pogofish]

No system can 100% safe from error though.


Are you suggesting a sort of 3rd level of guilty verdict?

A "the bastard is guilty and everyone knows it" verdict?

In Scotland, we currently have the "not proven" verdict, which although far from an ideal solution, in many cases is effectively just that. However a bill to abolish it is in its second stage just now and may be passed sometime next year.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Well, quite. I'd like them to be in in more openish prison so a little more justice could be applied. But the irony is that the higher profile the crime, the more protected they are.

On another note, I think it's fucking useful to televise the judge's summary and his explanation as to why he was imposing the sentence he was, and not more. Reading between the lines, he was saying 'throw away the keys', but the law is the law.

He's 43, 40 years is the minimum he must serve before he can even apply for parole (never granted straight away). The key is in the bin for that cunt.

 

[Thora]

Lessons learnt?

View attachment 455343

Statistics about child deaths due to abuse or neglect | NSPCC Learning

This briefing looks at what data and statistics are available about child deaths due to abuse and neglect, to help professionals make evidence-based decisions about keeping children safe.

learning.nspcc.org.uk

Easier to find a couple of individual workers to blame or promise to give children id numbers than make expensive changes like more support for families in the early years or safe caseloads for social workers.

 

[Petcha]

Easier to find a couple of individual workers to blame or promise to give children id numbers than make expensive changes like more support for families in the early years or safe caseloads for social workers.

I take it you're a social worker yourself?

 

[two sheds]

I take it you're a social worker yourself?

I take it you're not?

 

[breadandcircuse]

I admit I haven't read up on the case, it was too horrific. But why did they come back after fleeing to Pakistan? Did they think they were going to be arrested there? It seems so random to flee the country, and then voluntarily return.

 

[Petcha]

I take it you're not?

No. But I've got a fairly lengthy amount of time learning about how inept the system is. It's completely fucked. You just give up, trying to raise flags. It's pointless. They just close ranks. And they will do here.

Baby D, Victoria Climbie, and now Sara... and these are just the ones in the media spotlight.

 

[Petcha]

I admit I haven't read up on the case, it was too horrific. But why did they come back after fleeing to Pakistan? Did they think they were going to be arrested there? It seems so random to flee the country, and then voluntarily return.

Their family forced them back as it was bringing shame on their family. The whole thing is really weird.

 

[steeplejack]

Maybe kids don't get thrashed in schools any more, but there's still a weird cognitive dissonance thing going on in UK society whereby many parents still believe that it's acceptable to thrash your own or your partner's child(ren) as a punishment for being naughty/as a means of enforcing discipline.

Hitting children for "punishment", let alone any other reason, is now specifically a criminal offence in Scotland (since 2019/20), and is regarded as any other assault. I believe there is a similar law in Wales. It is however still legal in England and NI, or at least isn't the subject of criminal sanction.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Their family forced them back as it was bringing shame on their family. The whole thing is really weird.

Thanks.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I admit I haven't read up on the case, it was too horrific. But why did they come back after fleeing to Pakistan? Did they think they were going to be arrested there? It seems so random to flee the country, and then voluntarily return.

The UK has a good (swift) extradition treaty with Pakistan and that country is not as easy to hide in as you may imagine.

Odd thing to note, that probably only I would notice; they flew back via Dubai on Emirates in business class.

 

[breadandcircuse]

The UK has a good (swift) extradition treaty with Pakistan and that country is not as easy to hide in as you may imagine.

Odd thing to note, that probably only I would notice; they flew back via Dubai on Emirates in business class.

Thanks.

 

[Spymaster]

I take it you're not?

You're confusing him with me.

 

[Indeliblelink]

The UK has a good (swift) extradition treaty with Pakistan

Not according to this BBC article from last year, or is it just that it's not a "formal" agreement? I'm sure the two countries co-operate under most circumstances.

Sara Sharif murder inquiry: Girl known to authorities, council says

Surrey County Council says it is "working tirelessly" to understand what happened to Sara.

www.bbc.co.uk

There is no formal extradition treaty between the UK and Pakistan.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Not according to this BBC article from last year, or is it just that it's not a "formal" agreement? I'm sure the two countries co-operate under most circumstances.

Sara Sharif murder inquiry: Girl known to authorities, council says

Surrey County Council says it is "working tirelessly" to understand what happened to Sara.

www.bbc.co.uk

We seem to get crims back from there very quickly on a regular basis, think it's an informal agreement.

 

[seeformiles]

We seem to get crims back from there very quickly on a regular basis, think it's an informal agreement.

Which country would refuse to extradite a child murderer?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Which country would refuse to extradite a child murderer?

Russia.

 

[weltweit]

These people are scum.

And this thread is repeatedly getting me angry despite that I have said all there is to say on these people so I am going to find a way to ignore the thread. Nothing more to say.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

That's what I meant by "used to be".

The safeguards were never operative.

Times have changed.

What I am saying is those defendants were convicted of heinous crimes forcwhich hanging would have been indicated.

 

[StoneRoad]

I've always been against the death penalty. Mainly because it isn't reversible and the justice system makes mistakes, but also I think that being locked up for the rest of your natural life is actually harsher than dangling at the end of a rope.
Not to mention that child abusers do not have a cushy time when incarcerated, as most prisoners detest child abusers and make that quite clear to them. TBH, the screws, don't like 'em, either - pretty sure there's lots of extra work involved in keeping them segregated for their own safety.

 

[seeformiles]

Russia.

Probably

 

[Spymaster]

What I am saying is those defendants were convicted of heinous crimes forcwhich hanging would have been indicated.

Yes. They wouldn't be hanged in Spyworld though.

 

[VivaE]

He's 43, 40 years is the minimum he must serve before he can even apply for parole (never granted straight away). The key is in the bin for that cunt.

Yes, thankfully in his case, it's the equivalent of a whole of life without parole sentence.

I followed the trial on and off elsewhere and what most breaks my heart is the resilience of this little girl, despite the hidden horrow show of a life she was enduring.

 

[tonysingh]

I understand the desire to see the perpetrators of this horrendous crime dealt with in a manner that is more severe than the law currently allows for. You wouldn't be human if you didn't.

But the male here (obviously my knowledge is limited to mens jails) will not be locked up with normal prisoners. The only cons he'll be seeing are the worst of the worst from the Vulnerable Prisoner unit so that's other child killers, serial child rapists and such. Anyone getting at him isn't someone to cheer, i wouldnt want to be pleased by the act of any bacon or rapist, no matter their target.

 

[Thora]

I take it you're a social worker yourself?

Why?