Obama takes early action on Guantanamo

[aylee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7841492.stm

A good start.

Let's hope he follows through and abolishes the military tribunals, closes Guantanamo Bay, and has his government try anyone against whom there is sufficient evidence not obtained by torture and swiftly releases other detainees.

 

[Azrael]

Hmmm, I get a bad feeling about this. What's to "review"? You've a gulag you need to close. Get on with it: you've had several months to plan.

What's to stop President Obama having Federal prosecutors empanel a grand jury to seek indictments against the worst inmates? New York prosecutors could do the same. That would show a real desire to close Guantanamo. The President could then work out what to do with a few tricky cases.

Really, really hope I'm wrong here, but this move just reads like Pres. Obama hedging his bets.

 

[isitme]

Hmmm, I get a bad feeling about this. What's to "review"? You've a gulag you need to close. Get on with it: you've had several months to plan.

What's to stop President Obama having Federal prosecutors empanel a grand jury to seek indictments against the worst inmates? New York prosecutors could do the same. That would show a real desire to close Guantanamo. The President could then work out what to do with a few tricky cases.

Really, really hope I'm wrong here, but this move just reads like Pres. Obama hedging his bets.

The president isn't all powerful tho. he can't just say 'make it so' and get it done a day later, he has to go through congress etc

 

[Azrael]

The president isn't all powerful tho. he can't just say 'make it so' and get it done a day later, he has to go through congress etc

True, and I'd need a US lawyer to help me out here, but I believe the Justice Department launches Federal prosecutions, and I'm sure Pres. Obama could "have a word". Grand jury hearings are secret, and there must be probable cause against the most dangerous Guantanamo inmates. He has no power to order New York State to indict people, but again, I'm sure someone could give the DA's office the nod.

If the will were there, I don't think setting the wheels in motion in the existing justice system is going to be any sort of obstacle.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Credit where credit is due i reckon, he promised during the run-up to inauguaration that he would do something and he has immediately started a process which will hopefully see the end of this farrago of justice. Whether that means all those held being released or simply transferred to US jails is another point, from what i understand and is what represents a significant problem, as many countries have apparently indicated that they are unwilling to have detainees sent back to them.

 

[Azrael]

[...] many countries have apparently indicated that they are unwilling to have detainees sent back to them.

This would come under "tricky cases", and I agree that it's a real problem.

However, the people the USA wants to indict don't come under this bracket. The existing justice system is perfectly capable of trying them, either in New York State or in a Federal courthouse. Guantanamo is going to close: I'd be amazed if Pres. Obama reneged on that election pledge. My concern is that he's going to set up a "parallel justice system" on the US mainland for "enemy combatants", which would be just as creepy, perhaps moreso. Some commentators have already mooted this idea.

It's not just Guantanamo that needs shutting down: it's the ideology behind it.

 

[pk]

Trouble is - what do you do with the people interred at Gitmo?

Can't just fly them home, most would be shot dead within hours of landing.

 

[spring-peeper]

Trouble is - what do you do with the people interred at Gitmo?

Can't just fly them home, most would be shot dead within hours of landing.

or their country refuses to let them in!!!

I wonder what this will mean for Omar Khadr. His trial started yesterday.

 

[Azrael]

First I'd try and cut deals with their own countries (who are being appallingly negligent and taking a huge dump over the norms of international law), with ample threats. Then I'd try and, well let's be honest, bribe another country to take them. Finally, as it's the USA's mess, I'd give them residence in the United States until I could cut a deal with someone else.

This would be political suicide for Pres. Obama, and I can sympathise with that, but if you want the benefits of high office, you must accept the consequences. If doing the right thing means you don't get another term: tough.

None of this affects genuinely dangerous individuals such as Mr Khadr: I'd be amazed if the USA doesn't have probable cause to sling him in a Federal jail pending trial.

 

[stowpirate]

"seeks a 120-day suspension of trials and will be heard by two tribunal judges on Wednesday"

Four months when it could be sorted in four hours? He could have ordered the pull out of all forces in Iraq with in minutes of taking power and complete it by the end of the week. Is he going to be Just another evil individual that talks the talk or in six months will he have really made a difference?

 

[purplex]

So you expect him to just give the word, have a word in someones ear, get it done by the end of the week.

Of course...

 

[butchersapron]

Isn't that what all the fuss about the executive grabbing more and more power to itself through the patriot act and things like that was all about?

 

[stowpirate]

So you expect him to just give the word, have a word in someones ear, get it done by the end of the week.

Of course...

Things can be achieved in hours if there is a will. They could leave most of the material behind and just pull the troops out obviously the Iraqi regime will need as many weapons as possible to keep control unless they split the country into three. Unless there is a miracle It is inevitable that somebody of the same ilk as Sadam will seize power but will they look to Russia or US spheres of influence for backing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wonder if el prez will seek to prosecute those responsible for torturing gitmo detainees?

Hint: no

 

[MightyAphrodite]

Trouble is - what do you do with the people interred at Gitmo?

Can't just fly them home, most would be shot dead within hours of landing.

He was talking about it on telly today and said something about Switzerland and NATO handling a lot of that business.

 

[MightyAphrodite]

hes also just put a wage freeze on all the politicians who work with/for him, no wage above $100k...threatened them that if they did shady business with lobbyists there would be severe consequences and signed another bill to get rid of the whole shady 'wiretapping' (etc) carry on...

not bad for 1 days work.

hes gonna talk to the military folks later about how to go about getting starting to withdraw from iraq according to the white house lot rambling...

 

[Isambard]

Trouble is - what do you do with the people interred at Gitmo?

There have been offers made to take people who can't go "home".
Sweden, Norway and Switzerland ring a bell.

 

[untethered]

Hmmm, I get a bad feeling about this. What's to "review"? You've a gulag you need to close. Get on with it: you've had several months to plan.

The military commissions take place according to the law and for as long as the law stands (which it would need Congress to repeal) then the process can proceed.

Mr Obama has requested the commission presidents on each case to suspend the cases. My understanding is that he cannot abolish the commissions by executive order and if he drops the prosecutions it weakens the already flimsy legality of the suspects' detention.

 

[isitme]

People are complaining that it's gonna take him a few months to stop a war and close down an international prison camp

even if he is as good as people seem to think he couldn't do that, and it's a good thing that the president can't do massive things like that in a couple of weeks

 

[MightyAphrodite]

People are complaining that it's gonna take him a few months to stop a war and close down an international prison camp

even if he is as good as people seem to think he couldn't do that, and it's a good thing that the president can't do massive things like that in a couple of weeks

agree totally...if they could we'd all be dead cause bush would have obliterated the earth!!

he has done probably everything he can atm by freezing any sort of fucked up shit happening at Guantanamo Bay for 120 days.

 

[Azrael]

My understanding is that he cannot abolish the commissions by executive order and if he drops the prosecutions it weakens the already flimsy legality of the suspects' detention.

I'm sure prosecutors could get a handful of true bills before it saw the inside of a courtroom. As a gnarled old lawyer said, "a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich". Then the accused can be remanded straight to a Federal prison. (I don't see a Federal judge granting them bail this side of eternity.)

Of course, if Pres. Obama can't actually stop the current prosecutions, that's a legitimate reason for the delay. A statement from either him or his justice secretary explaining the (doubtless tangled) legal situation would be a very good idea right now.

 

[Orang Utan]

He's just announced that it's gonna close within a year.

 

[Azrael]

That's good to hear, but as I said above, the proof of the pudding comes in what the administration replaces it with.

 

[untethered]

Can they turn Guantanamo into a retirement home for the Bush administration?

 

[Orang Utan]

Obama also signed two executive orders today to alter CIA detention and interrogation rules, limiting interrogation standards in all U.S. facilities worldwide to those outlined in the Army Field Manual, and prohibiting the agency from secretly holding terrorist detainees in third-country prisons.
(from Washington Post)

 

[Azrael]

Now that is a real and courageous action by the Potus. Good on you Mr President!

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

He does appear to have taken some quite courageous actions and/or decisions in his first few hours in office, which is encouraging. Gitmo within a year, talked to 4 middle eastern leaders first off, salary caps for staff, even the re-sworn inaugaration ceremony so no right-wing-fucking-nutter-conspiracy-theory rubbish.

I must admit he's impressed me so far. He seems to want to put down a clear sea change from what's gone on before. Which is probably a no-brainer but reassuring.

Ballroom blitz

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Obama also signed two executive orders today to alter CIA detention and interrogation rules, limiting interrogation standards in all U.S. facilities worldwide to those outlined in the Army Field Manual, and prohibiting the agency from secretly holding terrorist detainees in third-country prisons.
(from Washington Post)

Yeah, that's decent progress towards readmittance to baseline civilisation.

 

[tastebud]

it's good.

but I remember this article:
"The pledge comes only the day after Obama appeared to row back from campaign promises by saying closure was more complicated than he had realised and it would be a challenge to do so in his first 100 days in office." Guardian, January 12.
which reminded me of what Bush said.

and at the end of the article:
"Five human rights groups today urged Obama to stop a war crimes trial at Guantanamo of a Canadian, Omar Khadr, now 22, who is accused of killing a US soldier in Afghanistan when he was 15."



Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/12/guantanamo-obama-white-house

 

[lostexpectation]

glad there was some coverage of the other prisons and rendition etc, pity none of the contractors will be jailed.

does this mean the only do this in really dark black operations now. instead of just black operations