November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
What has changed? A Jew is in just much danger today as he was then.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
nandeyanen?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Or so you wish people to believe, because it serves the ideology you follow.
Youngest one was covering that in History earlier in the term.
Depends on which part of the world you are in Rach.
To give a UK example being Jewish in somewhere like Northwest London not an issue whereas in somewhere like Tower Hamlets or Dagenham or similar places I'm not so sure. Both areas have fash of different types infesting the areas sadly.
The events of 70 years ago must NEVER been forgotten not only because of what happened on the night itself but because of what it led to.
Kristallnacht showed how easy it is for a nation that considers itself educated and civilised to become bestial. It is a continual reminder to be on our guard against the rise of fascism and hatred.
Canuck: "Canuck does not agree with Rachamim;s statement that a Jew today is in just as much danger as Jews in Nazi Europe.": Actually it is very apt. This week another major incident in Europe, against Jews, is reported. What about those unreported?
Whether it is a Jewish graveyard outside Marseilles where people dig up Jewish corpses and impale them through the rectum with sticks (actual event), or simply fire bombing a Jewish house of worship or metting hall the message is one and the same.
Anti-Semitism is of course an incorrect term since Jews are not the only Semites and it is almost universally applied to anti-Jewishness. I instead use the literal "anti-Jewishness." Anti-Jewishness has been with the world since before the time of the Common Era (AKA Before the time of Christ). We often hear that it is an invention of Europeans but indeed we faced brutal pogroms in ancient Alexandria, and again all through the Roman Empire in the time of Caligula.
Wherever we Jews settle we are hounded and abused. Why? We are very cohesive, we were until 1948 stateless for much of our existence, and for many centuries we failed to fight back. The descendants of Kings and warriors were hobbled. In WWII people thought that although Hitler and his party were bufoons (most thought although not all) and that like all other times we would emerge unscathed (more or less) and continue with our groveling and meagre existence.
The Holocaust was a mere single generation ago. My mom was in the Camps. That is how recent it is and already it is asked by many, "Why should students be forced to learn about this event. It is over, move on." The problem though is that the world, as philosophers have noticed, a circle. What goes around comes around, yes?
The only guarantee of CHANCE is the continued existence of Israel, the re-establishment of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
Shippou: "Nandeyanen?": I have no idea what that means.
Panda: "Rachamim would like people to believe the claim that 'Jews today are in just as much danger as they were when took place in 1938' because it serves Rachamim's ardent Zionism.":
Hardly, it is all true. You think the country that exterminated its Jews in the Middle Ages and only grudgingly let them return in Cromwell's time (because they financed a large part of his nonsense) although not even he put it in writing is soemhow solid?
What did the UK do at Evian Panda? What did it do in the Mandate? You think being a loyal subject will get you a pass? Jews in Germany thought that they were more German than any German! WHEN the time comes, whether in your lifetime or that of your children (G-D willing), only one nation on the planet will be sure to offer you succor. Do not forget that.
Zachor: Of course it depends where and when. BUT, no place is sure not be free of this hartred.
One thing though, it was not "Facism" that victimied anyone, but rather the stripe of Fascism practiced by Nazis. The core definition of "Facism" is imply uber-patriotism, putting the state above all else. There is nor racism at all.
On those grounds I proudly call myself a Facist, a Jewish -Facist. The Nazis were unqique in that they combined Fascism with unorthadox economc policies, as well as pseudo-scientific nonsense like eugenics. It is interesting how "Facist" has become a vile insult in such a short time (since WWII).
Whether it is a Jewish graveyard outside Marseilles where people dig up Jewish corpses and impale them through the rectum with sticks (actual event), or simply fire bombing a Jewish house of worship or metting hall the message is one and the same.
Anti-Semitism is of course an incorrect term since Jews are not the only Semites and it is almost universally applied to anti-Jewishness. I instead use the literal "anti-Jewishness." Anti-Jewishness has been with the world since before the time of the Common Era (AKA Before the time of Christ). We often hear that it is an invention of Europeans but indeed we faced brutal pogroms in ancient Alexandria, and again all through the Roman Empire in the time of Caligula.
Wherever we Jews settle we are hounded and abused. Why? We are very cohesive, we were until 1948 stateless for much of our existence, and for many centuries we failed to fight back. The descendants of Kings and warriors were hobbled. In WWII people thought that although Hitler and his party were bufoons (most thought although not all) and that like all other times we would emerge unscathed (more or less) and continue with our groveling and meagre existence.
The Holocaust was a mere single generation ago. My mom was in the Camps. That is how recent it is and already it is asked by many, "Why should students be forced to learn about this event. It is over, move on." The problem though is that the world, as philosophers have noticed, a circle. What goes around comes around, yes?
The only guarantee of CHANCE is the continued existence of Israel, the re-establishment of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
Shippou: "Nandeyanen?": I have no idea what that means.
Panda: "Rachamim would like people to believe the claim that 'Jews today are in just as much danger as they were when took place in 1938' because it serves Rachamim's ardent Zionism.":
Hardly, it is all true. You think the country that exterminated its Jews in the Middle Ages and only grudgingly let them return in Cromwell's time (because they financed a large part of his nonsense) although not even he put it in writing is soemhow solid?
What did the UK do at Evian Panda? What did it do in the Mandate? You think being a loyal subject will get you a pass? Jews in Germany thought that they were more German than any German! WHEN the time comes, whether in your lifetime or that of your children (G-D willing), only one nation on the planet will be sure to offer you succor. Do not forget that.
Zachor: Of course it depends where and when. BUT, no place is sure not be free of this hartred.
One thing though, it was not "Facism" that victimied anyone, but rather the stripe of Fascism practiced by Nazis. The core definition of "Facism" is imply uber-patriotism, putting the state above all else. There is nor racism at all.
On those grounds I proudly call myself a Facist, a Jewish -Facist. The Nazis were unqique in that they combined Fascism with unorthadox economc policies, as well as pseudo-scientific nonsense like eugenics. It is interesting how "Facist" has become a vile insult in such a short time (since WWII).
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Rachamim: you must have gathered by now that I'm a supporter of Israel's existence. I also believe that such a nation is necessary and desirable as a place of security for jewish people.
I also am not blind to the fact that human nature can turn in an instant, so that a peaceful and seemingly peace loving group of people, can become killers, or those who countenance killers.
However, due to the occurrence of the Holocaust, it's my belief that in general, jews are safer now, than they have been possibly for centuries. This isn't to say that there isn't still a threat, or that anti semitism has disappeared, but I think that the awareness of the treatment of jews at the hands of germans in the 40s, has created an atmosphere where anything similar is beyond contemplation, at least for the foreseeable future.
I also agree that constant education is needed to introduce new generations to the facts of what happened then. It has been surprising to me the number and tenacity of the revisionist attempts, even in the past decade or so.
I also am not blind to the fact that human nature can turn in an instant, so that a peaceful and seemingly peace loving group of people, can become killers, or those who countenance killers.
However, due to the occurrence of the Holocaust, it's my belief that in general, jews are safer now, than they have been possibly for centuries. This isn't to say that there isn't still a threat, or that anti semitism has disappeared, but I think that the awareness of the treatment of jews at the hands of germans in the 40s, has created an atmosphere where anything similar is beyond contemplation, at least for the foreseeable future.
I also agree that constant education is needed to introduce new generations to the facts of what happened then. It has been surprising to me the number and tenacity of the revisionist attempts, even in the past decade or so.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
ffs, can't you both take it somewhere else for a change?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Bugger off.
[a thread about the persecution of jews, and he wants us to take it 'somewhere else'
]Tandoori: Like your "Chicken" but I do have to say how retarded your line of reasoning is. "Take it somewhere else" because I mean, it is not as if a thread dealing with the seminal event in anti-Jewish behavior would have anything to with...say...discussing "hatred of Jews." Got it, thanks for the newsflash Einstein.
Canuck: Oh I know you are not like alot of posters, of course. It is just that I am very keenly aware of so called "anti-Semtism" on many levels. As you said, Historical Revisonism has been growing at a rapid pace. The further we move from the central event, the stronger the bile becomes. Did a thread on Bluelight not too long ago where i talked about the campaign to capture a living Nazi criminal and alot of folks were saying that because he is 95 he should be given a pass, etc. People naturally move away from dealing with it in such a serious manner.
My thing is that this is exactly what endangers Jews. I do think Jews have EVER been safe although probably, from 1945 to 1970 thereabouts was the safest time in our history (since Exile). Now, as you have observed, it is moving in the opposite direction.
Canuck: Oh I know you are not like alot of posters, of course. It is just that I am very keenly aware of so called "anti-Semtism" on many levels. As you said, Historical Revisonism has been growing at a rapid pace. The further we move from the central event, the stronger the bile becomes. Did a thread on Bluelight not too long ago where i talked about the campaign to capture a living Nazi criminal and alot of folks were saying that because he is 95 he should be given a pass, etc. People naturally move away from dealing with it in such a serious manner.
My thing is that this is exactly what endangers Jews. I do think Jews have EVER been safe although probably, from 1945 to 1970 thereabouts was the safest time in our history (since Exile). Now, as you have observed, it is moving in the opposite direction.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Maybe I just don't want to believe that it's possible again.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
retarded is it? charming. line of reasoning? or listening to you fucking drone on again in you're dogamtic illiterate style. on a thread that seemed, to me, to be a useful historical reminder of events of days of yore, rather than an opportunity for you to spout absolute bollocks again.
no surprise there then eh? you fool.
Canuck: OH, you are not alone. indeed, MOST cannot conceive of it happening. Even though it is very recent, people alive today do not feel it would ever happen in their life but that is exactly what made it possible in the first place. Very, very few Jews (or any other targetted demographic) saw it coming and even while confronted wioth it refused to accept it. Even as they jogged and marched to the showers, or into the Step Vans like some in my family, they refused to believe it. Very rarely did someone even raise a cry let alone fight.
Revisonists, the Jews who gave birth to Kahanism today, were the only ones urging resistance.
For me, I see it around me all the time, but not in a paranoid way (at least i do not think so).
Paulie: Let you in on a bit of a secret. English is about my 7th language. My first is Arabic. I did manage though, to gain a science degree in YOUR language. Wonder how you might do in Arabic?
A lack of, or expert level facility in English does not save you from your comment though. Telling a Jew not to talk about "Hatred of Jews," in a thread devoted to "Hatred of Jews." Hmmm...OK, thanks for letting me know.
"A reminder of events of yore." Alas poor Yorick. Listen swifty, my mum lived through it. It is not 2000 years ago but even if it were it would still offer a lesson for those willing and able to assimilate it. IF you fail to see the utility in it, why not shove off and spread your Tandoori Cheer somewhere where it might be appreciated , let alone wanted.
Instead you in your superior intellect deigned to step down off that moral AND intellectual soapbox and preach to those that do not give a gerbil's fart in the wind, but hey, just me in my illiteracy. Eh?
Revisonists, the Jews who gave birth to Kahanism today, were the only ones urging resistance.
For me, I see it around me all the time, but not in a paranoid way (at least i do not think so).
Paulie: Let you in on a bit of a secret. English is about my 7th language. My first is Arabic. I did manage though, to gain a science degree in YOUR language. Wonder how you might do in Arabic?
A lack of, or expert level facility in English does not save you from your comment though. Telling a Jew not to talk about "Hatred of Jews," in a thread devoted to "Hatred of Jews." Hmmm...OK, thanks for letting me know.
"A reminder of events of yore." Alas poor Yorick. Listen swifty, my mum lived through it. It is not 2000 years ago but even if it were it would still offer a lesson for those willing and able to assimilate it. IF you fail to see the utility in it, why not shove off and spread your Tandoori Cheer somewhere where it might be appreciated , let alone wanted.
Instead you in your superior intellect deigned to step down off that moral AND intellectual soapbox and preach to those that do not give a gerbil's fart in the wind, but hey, just me in my illiteracy. Eh?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I think that's a different issue. I don't think it's surprising that a group targetted by hatred doesn't believe, or doesn't want to believe, that such a thing is possible. The question is whether, when looking at the society at large, the conditions are right whereby such a thing can be perpetrated with societal assent, or at least without resistance from the society at large.
I read somewhere that Krystallnacht was important to Hitler, because it showed him that german society, and especially the church, would remain quiescent to the mistreatment of the jews. It was his green light for the final solution.
I believe that if there was something similar to a krystallnacht now, there would be furious resistance from many quarters of society.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
If you removed your bias sunglasses, you might see that there isn't any bollocks here.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Oh no? Our chum rachamim expresses that he is proud to be a fascist in a post above and says that the only problem with the Nazis was that they got their 'brand' of fascism wrong? So his argument appears to be that if the Nazis had practised the kind of policies that, for eg, Israel does currently, then Kristallnacht wouldn't have taken place? And you're telling me that this isn't utter bollocks?
Imvho, the biggest threat to the Jews across the world currently is the very aggressive and belligerent foreign (and domestic iro Palestine) policy coming out of Israel, and largelly fuelled/funded, it seems, by a strong Jewish lobby in the USA. And many of the more detrimental impacts of this approach is causing many lives to be lost around the world, regardless of race, creed or colour.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Is that the current threat to the jews? What caused the threat back during the holocaust, the pogroms, the cleansings during the Crusades, etc?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Do you think it's the same thing?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
that's a different question as you well know. what do you want? a discussion about kristallnacht and why it happened and what we can learn from it?
or a discussion about why jews now are apparently under as great a threat now as then, because their crypto-fascist supporters cry wolf? you decide oh great one.....
hipipol
Peckham Wry
You really are an arse
I can understand some of the logic of the way the world works, but I really am at a loss when it comes to following your logic
You seem to be saying:
As we were attacked by one set of people or peoples it is right then that we should go and attack someone ENTIRELY different, ie the Palestinians.
How can that ever lead to peace?
Or is peace not really on the agenda?
Canuck: "Could it happen again?"": Ironically today I was reviwing a report on the Humboldt University Riot in Berlin just a couple of days ago. The university had a large exhibit in the main lobby of the Administration Building talking about the economic losses inflicted during Kristallnacht.
It does not get richer than this. The day in question 12,000 people, m,ostly non-political students (young, not university age) and leftists primarily from the Black Block (well known hard left consortium) rampaged through the university known for its close ties to Israel and as they tore down the exhibit on Kristallnacht were cursing Israel as well as Jews (per EU bylaws both constitute blatant antiJewishness).
It struck me as particularly poignant given this discussion.
"Hitler saw it as an important event because it showed him that the German rank and file would go along with his extreme anti-Jewish policies and laws.": Indeed. He actually was rather ambivalent about it and was more concerned with the reception the event received in foreign nations. Goebbels was the person behind it and who considered it be a more pivotal event. High ranking party members, especially in the Economics sector were disgusted because as they correctly noted it interfered with their radical rearmament programme.
Hitler was very confident of his hold over the lower and middle classes of Germany, et al. He was a bit more pensive over how it played in other countries and much to his relief, aside from the same tongue wagging nothing really changed. There were some loud voices for a couple of weeks but no real changes and many (myself included) believe that this was pivotal in sealing the Jews' fate.
"Canuck believes that were Kristallnacht to take place now, many more quarters would voice their outrage.": I wish you were right but in the end we see it happening on a smaller scale many times over. Where is the outrage over Berlin this past week? It is not even getting airplay Internationally. Outside of Israel and parts of Germany it is a total non-issue. There were no deaths thank G-D but the non-Jewish rector of the school barricaded himself inside his office in fear for his life.
Then again, in the original event there was not an overwhelming number of deaths to begin with. It was more of a social statement and economic crime. Certainly a university Administration building does not compare to the overwhelming damage incurred on Kristallnacht but it does strike me as telling.
It does not get richer than this. The day in question 12,000 people, m,ostly non-political students (young, not university age) and leftists primarily from the Black Block (well known hard left consortium) rampaged through the university known for its close ties to Israel and as they tore down the exhibit on Kristallnacht were cursing Israel as well as Jews (per EU bylaws both constitute blatant antiJewishness).
It struck me as particularly poignant given this discussion.
"Hitler saw it as an important event because it showed him that the German rank and file would go along with his extreme anti-Jewish policies and laws.": Indeed. He actually was rather ambivalent about it and was more concerned with the reception the event received in foreign nations. Goebbels was the person behind it and who considered it be a more pivotal event. High ranking party members, especially in the Economics sector were disgusted because as they correctly noted it interfered with their radical rearmament programme.
Hitler was very confident of his hold over the lower and middle classes of Germany, et al. He was a bit more pensive over how it played in other countries and much to his relief, aside from the same tongue wagging nothing really changed. There were some loud voices for a couple of weeks but no real changes and many (myself included) believe that this was pivotal in sealing the Jews' fate.
"Canuck believes that were Kristallnacht to take place now, many more quarters would voice their outrage.": I wish you were right but in the end we see it happening on a smaller scale many times over. Where is the outrage over Berlin this past week? It is not even getting airplay Internationally. Outside of Israel and parts of Germany it is a total non-issue. There were no deaths thank G-D but the non-Jewish rector of the school barricaded himself inside his office in fear for his life.
Then again, in the original event there was not an overwhelming number of deaths to begin with. It was more of a social statement and economic crime. Certainly a university Administration building does not compare to the overwhelming damage incurred on Kristallnacht but it does strike me as telling.
Tandoori: "Rachamim aid he is proud to be a 'facist'.": I suppose you happoened to miss the very recent thread (in honesty perhaps 3 months ago) in this very forum where I made the same exact statement and like you, was given an earful by others. I then challenged them to offer an actual definition of the ideology at its core essence and when some posters obliged all the voices shut up, QUICKLY. I invite you as well to actually research fascism to see what it is before running your mouth, or finger as the case maybe.
It has NOTHING to do with racism or prejudice of any kind, AT ALL. Stripped of the perversions offered by old Adolf (sic) it simply means "extreme patriotism." Most happen to find THAT to be an admirable attribute, not soemthing to denigrate and belittle.
Do your integrity a favour and look into the actual matter and then, while you are at it, please practice separating personalities from issues. Even if you find my views to be the most reprehensible on the planet I am at least as deserving of civility as any other poster. IF you are unable to act adult like, do the entire forum a favour and simply ignore me .
I do not understand at all your point to Canuck about "Were Nazis to practice policies undertaken by Israel, Kristallnacht would not have taken place." I do not see that you make a shred of sense with it.
More Irony courtesy of Tandoori: "The greatest danger to Jews today is Israel and its actions which seem to be fuled by the Jewish Lobby in the US.": Your phrasing is curiously similar to that employed by Neo-Nazis and stock racists. Is that your angle Tandoori? "Jewish Lobby?" There is a "PRO-ISRAEL LOBBY" in the US but Jewish and Israeli are not synonymous, save in the eys of racists. Case in point is AIPAC, the most often examined pro-Israeli Lobby organisation in the US.
As I often discuss in ME Forum, the pro-Israel Lobby and Israel have, often, diametrically opposed viewpoints. These organisations wish to steer Israeli policy in the direction they hope for, not the one intended by Israel. Simply review former PM Sharon's last State Visit to the US when he publicly lambasted AIPAC for tis selfish posturing which was harming Israeli objectives in a huge way.
As for Israel being a danger to Jews, that is the epitome of ignorance. Only Israel works to save Jews wherever and whenever they are in danger. The US? UK? Both sha% on Jews through and through all through their national histories. As for WWII when one or both of those nations could have singlehandedly avoided most Jewish casualties emanating from the Holocaust, they both chose to sit on their hands. Botaloads of Jews trying to land in the US, turned away and left to languish without supplies, at sea, and then finally to turn around and return to Europe where almost all died. The UK blockading the British Mandate? Sending ships back also? OR sometimes letting the passengers rot in concentration camps on Cyprus and elsewhere?
Israel alone is the guarantee of a hoe for the Jewish People. Its policies? Simply by existing it is in violation of the Qu'ran and Shari'a. Islamic theology holds that any centimeter of land EVER ruled by a Muslim must everafter be Islamic Land (they are not the fitst demographic to hold this attitude, Rome was famous for that arrogance). Ergo, Israel is not allowed to exist and should be destroyed at any cost.
People like you offer wholesale criticism and blanket indictments, consigning an entire nation to the shi#house because you do not bother to try and understand what is taking place. Tell us Tandoori, ever bother to read the HAMAS Charter? Do you know what the word "exterminate" means?
Tell us Tandoori, are you familiar with what a 120 mm shell can do? We had an elderly woman almost die this morning from peace loving Gazans launching one (well they have launched 160 shells over the last 7 days, but who is counting?).
Israeli policies? You do not know the first thing about Israel or its dangers and yet you feel knowledgeable enough to erase an entire nation. Bravo.
It has NOTHING to do with racism or prejudice of any kind, AT ALL. Stripped of the perversions offered by old Adolf (sic) it simply means "extreme patriotism." Most happen to find THAT to be an admirable attribute, not soemthing to denigrate and belittle.
Do your integrity a favour and look into the actual matter and then, while you are at it, please practice separating personalities from issues. Even if you find my views to be the most reprehensible on the planet I am at least as deserving of civility as any other poster. IF you are unable to act adult like, do the entire forum a favour and simply ignore me .
I do not understand at all your point to Canuck about "Were Nazis to practice policies undertaken by Israel, Kristallnacht would not have taken place." I do not see that you make a shred of sense with it.
More Irony courtesy of Tandoori: "The greatest danger to Jews today is Israel and its actions which seem to be fuled by the Jewish Lobby in the US.": Your phrasing is curiously similar to that employed by Neo-Nazis and stock racists. Is that your angle Tandoori? "Jewish Lobby?" There is a "PRO-ISRAEL LOBBY" in the US but Jewish and Israeli are not synonymous, save in the eys of racists. Case in point is AIPAC, the most often examined pro-Israeli Lobby organisation in the US.
As I often discuss in ME Forum, the pro-Israel Lobby and Israel have, often, diametrically opposed viewpoints. These organisations wish to steer Israeli policy in the direction they hope for, not the one intended by Israel. Simply review former PM Sharon's last State Visit to the US when he publicly lambasted AIPAC for tis selfish posturing which was harming Israeli objectives in a huge way.
As for Israel being a danger to Jews, that is the epitome of ignorance. Only Israel works to save Jews wherever and whenever they are in danger. The US? UK? Both sha% on Jews through and through all through their national histories. As for WWII when one or both of those nations could have singlehandedly avoided most Jewish casualties emanating from the Holocaust, they both chose to sit on their hands. Botaloads of Jews trying to land in the US, turned away and left to languish without supplies, at sea, and then finally to turn around and return to Europe where almost all died. The UK blockading the British Mandate? Sending ships back also? OR sometimes letting the passengers rot in concentration camps on Cyprus and elsewhere?
Israel alone is the guarantee of a hoe for the Jewish People. Its policies? Simply by existing it is in violation of the Qu'ran and Shari'a. Islamic theology holds that any centimeter of land EVER ruled by a Muslim must everafter be Islamic Land (they are not the fitst demographic to hold this attitude, Rome was famous for that arrogance). Ergo, Israel is not allowed to exist and should be destroyed at any cost.
People like you offer wholesale criticism and blanket indictments, consigning an entire nation to the shi#house because you do not bother to try and understand what is taking place. Tell us Tandoori, ever bother to read the HAMAS Charter? Do you know what the word "exterminate" means?
Tell us Tandoori, are you familiar with what a 120 mm shell can do? We had an elderly woman almost die this morning from peace loving Gazans launching one (well they have launched 160 shells over the last 7 days, but who is counting?).
Israeli policies? You do not know the first thing about Israel or its dangers and yet you feel knowledgeable enough to erase an entire nation. Bravo.
Hipol: Forgive me if I misunderstand you but since you offered an excerpt from my posts dealing with my earlier comments about the nature of "facism," I assume then that you are connecting "facism" with actions taken against "Palestinians." Yes?
If so...Israel is NOT a facist state. It is a liberal democracy with an Arab minority not only only holding every single right I do but extra ones as well. They make up roughly 20% of our population, quite a sizable group.
Israel is totally within its rights when it takes military action against terroorists who belong to groups publicly committed to not only destroying all of Israel but exterminating every Jew on the planet as well.
Given this understanding, and then when faced with terrrorists setting up launch sites in Gaza, should Israel NOT respond?
Should Israel NOT close Crossings? Less than 6 days ago the Israel discovered a tunnel not more than 250 meters from Kissufim Crossing, and constructed so as to kidnap Israelis (one is already held in Israel as you may or may not know). Would you have Israel just allow them to kidnap Israelis at will? Launch large rockets into our homes? Bomb our buses, discos, and cafes?
What Israeli policy do you find oppressive? Why do you find it oppressive?
If so...Israel is NOT a facist state. It is a liberal democracy with an Arab minority not only only holding every single right I do but extra ones as well. They make up roughly 20% of our population, quite a sizable group.
Israel is totally within its rights when it takes military action against terroorists who belong to groups publicly committed to not only destroying all of Israel but exterminating every Jew on the planet as well.
Given this understanding, and then when faced with terrrorists setting up launch sites in Gaza, should Israel NOT respond?
Should Israel NOT close Crossings? Less than 6 days ago the Israel discovered a tunnel not more than 250 meters from Kissufim Crossing, and constructed so as to kidnap Israelis (one is already held in Israel as you may or may not know). Would you have Israel just allow them to kidnap Israelis at will? Launch large rockets into our homes? Bomb our buses, discos, and cafes?
What Israeli policy do you find oppressive? Why do you find it oppressive?
Any links on that becasue it is the first I have heard of it.
12 000 people rampaging on the anniversary of Kristalnacht in Berlin would have been a BIG story. If it happened.
Also, if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that the Black Block in Germany is in many cases VERY pro-Israel.
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