Noam Chomsky: 9-11: Institutional Analysis vs. Conspiracy Theory

[laptop]

Upton Park.

 

[Mungy]

anyway.

i've just been looking for the post where a poster has said that what zwicker had to say about chomsky was a weak argument to quote it but i can't find it.

whoever said it, could you please explain why the argument was weak. just to try and keep the thread on topic likes

 

[8den]

It depends what his motivation for believing and promoting this is. If it was coming from a group that promoted intolerence, violence and hostility to Jews, then yes it would be a different matter.

Icke does not promote any negativity or hostility to the Jewish people, infact quite the opposite. He's not provoking hostility to anybody no matter what their race or religous beliefs are. This is why I think it is a cheap easy trick to just label him as an anti-semite.

Ah so why does he perpetually mention that they are members Jewish race? If their religion/ethic background wasn't relevant to his theory why mention it? Whats the significance of these people being jews in the first place, that, Icke needs to mention their ethic background? I mean, if it's irrelevant, why raise it? Why isn't the hair colour of the conspiractors relevent then? why not say;

"I strongly believe that a small Ginger haired clique which has contempt for the mass of Ginger haired people worked with non-gingers to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."

or

"I strongly believe that a small[b left handed clique[/b] which has contempt for the mass of left handed people worked with non-left handers to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."

or I strongly believe

"I strongly believe that a small "blue cat" clique which has contempt for the mass of "blue cat" people worked with non-"blue cats" to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."

Pointly claimly members of a certain ethic group are responsible for all the worlds grief while at the same time claiming that belonging to that ethic group doesn't make you a part of the conspiracy, begs the question, why raise their ethic background in the first place?

Unless its sly anti semitism.

But perhaps you can explain why Icke references this "Jewish element" in his theories.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I know! I know!

Actually, I can't quite decide whether Icke is off in pixieworld supporting the fascists, or is a fascist himself. It's a problem I've had before - I've encountered people who've been entirely convinced that Jews were responsible for all sorts, but, you know, it wasn't *because* they were Jews, and most Jews weren't like that, still, you know, it was still a whole conspiracy exclusively involving Jews.

I don't really distinguish any more to be frank. Idiot or cunt? Or both? Hm. Who cares? It's of pathological interest, I suppose.

 

[nick1181]

Noam Chomksy's Jewish.

 

[RaverDrew]

Ah so why does he perpetually mention that they are members Jewish race? If their religion/ethic background wasn't relevant to his theory why mention it? Whats the significance of these people being jews in the first place, that, Icke needs to mention their ethic background? I mean, if it's irrelevant, why raise it? Why isn't the hair colour of the conspiractors relevent then? why not say;



or


or I strongly believe



Pointly claimly members of a certain ethic group are responsible for all the worlds grief while at the same time claiming that belonging to that ethic group doesn't make you a part of the conspiracy, begs the question, why raise their ethic background in the first place?

Unless its sly anti semitism.

But perhaps you can explain why Icke references this "Jewish element" in his theories.

Are you for real ?

You seem like you are just trolling to me.

There is no significance to him mentioning their race/religon apart from trying to be specific about the points that he is making in his books.

He can't just say "oh well there was like these random people that used to hang about together and shared these same beliefs, and they used these beliefs as a form of control to gain power n stuff. By the way, I don't want to mention exactly who these dudes were because that would be wacist and people might think I secretly want them all gassed"

I suggest before coming out with such crap, you pick up one of his books and know what you are actually talking about. Infact I just picked up one of his books now and there is only about 7-8 pages of it (out of hundreds) is devoted to talking specifically about the Jewish people. Most of that is about the evil crap and abuse that they have had to suffer over the years, and how wrong it is. The majority is a mix of new-age stuff, ancient civilizations, royal families and bloodlines and the odd bit of sci-fi style science n secrets.

I guaruntee you that those that are criticizing the man for being an anti semite are doing so based on the odd misinterpretation of a few quotes given bullshit spin by religious nutters and hippybashers. His books mention nearly every religon there is, he thinks it is all a load of wank, not just Judaism.

 

[Jazzz]

Ah so why does he perpetually mention that they are members Jewish race? If their religion/ethic background wasn't relevant to his theory why mention it? Whats the significance of these people being jews in the first place, that, Icke needs to mention their ethic background? I mean, if it's irrelevant, why raise it? Why isn't the hair colour of the conspiractors relevent then? why not say;
<snip>

But that's exactly the point: he doesn't 'perpetually' mention Jewishness at all, as I said, he doesn't mention it in his talks, and it doesn't get much of a look in the books either. Millions of words with nothing to do with Jews at all. Maybe if you saw the rest of the chapter those quotes were taken from, the context would be clearer.

 

[RaverDrew]

I know! I know!

Actually, I can't quite decide whether Icke is off in pixieworld supporting the fascists, or is a fascist himself. It's a problem I've had before - I've encountered people who've been entirely convinced that Jews were responsible for all sorts, but, you know, it wasn't *because* they were Jews, and most Jews weren't like that, still, you know, it was still a whole conspiracy exclusively involving Jews.

I don't really distinguish any more to be frank. Idiot or cunt? Or both? Hm. Who cares? It's of pathological interest, I suppose.

His conspiracy does not exclusively involve jews, they only play the tiniest part in his theories, and even then he does not have anything negative to say about the jewish people.

Yes he maybe friggin nuts, but to call the guy an anti-semite is a completely unfair and wrong stick to beat him with.

 

[laptop]

Anyone with the slightest acquaintance with the history and tropes of of anti-Jewish propaganda must conclude that there are only two possibilities:

• Either Icke's disclaimers are outright untruths and he is a straight-up antisemite and a lying cunt;
• or he really believes the lizard shit so he is a certifiable lunatic and he is the deluded tool of antisemitic cunts.

Either way, his bleatings deserve less much respect than pond-slime. In the former case cyanide would be a mercy; in the latter, largactyl.

 

[RaverDrew]

Anyone with the slightest acquaintance with the history and tropes of of anti-Jewish propaganda must conclude that there are only two possibilities:

• Either Icke's disclaimers are outright untruths and he is a straight-up antisemite and a lying cunt;
• or he really believes the lizard shit so he is a certifiable lunatic and he is the deluded tool of antisemitic cunts.

Either way, his bleatings deserve less much respect than pond-slime. In the former case cyanide would be a mercy; in the latter, largactyl.

and I am the son of God

 

[Random]

and I am the son of God

Aren't we all.

 

[8den]

But that's exactly the point: he doesn't 'perpetually' mention Jewishness at all, as I said, he doesn't mention it in his talks, and it doesn't get much of a look in the books either. Millions of words with nothing to do with Jews at all. Maybe if you saw the rest of the chapter those quotes were taken from, the context would be clearer.

Yeah yeah very LaRouchian, the fact remains he consistently mentions jews in his conspiracy theory. Why? If he's not "anti semitic"?

Seeing as people don't meet "Reptilian overloards" every day, and yet Icke makes reference to the "jews" in his theories. And we meet Jews every day why consistently bring up the ethic background of "some" of the overlords if its irrelevant? Explain that? (for shits and giggles)

Me Now I've never met a "Repitilian overlord" but I've met plenty of jews, why present the ethic background of the people he claims are part of the conspiracy if he doesn't think their ethic background is relevant to the conspiracy?

 

[Jazzz]

He really does believe the lizard shit. Or did - I have wondered if he might have realised he went off a bit too far, lizards didn't get much of a mention in his last talk. He is not the tool of anti-semites. He speaks out against racism in all forms and eloquently so.

I'd like to mention that guilt by association is the prime weapon of the fascist, and there really is the nature of a witch-hunt to all this 'he's one of them' nonsense. In a newsletter not so long ago Icke went on about how not only the BNP and supporters but much of the anti-nazi crowd are caught up in exactly the same hate vibration.

I've just pulled up that newsletter: here's what he had to say about Nick Griffin, and race in general:

I have never met Nick Griffin, but he would appear to be a deeply unpleasant piece of work with a vicious agenda behind his desperate efforts to sound as reasonable as possible. In America he would be no doubt be dubbed a 'white supremacist' who would have been right at home before Martin Luther King and desegregation came along.

He continues on the subject of race in general:

He is caught in the great illusion that our race defines who we are when, in fact, the body is just a biological computer that we can control or allow to control us. The white race, black, Asian, Chinese, whatever, are software programmes carried in the DNA and played out through the brain. To identify who we are with a software program would be considered insane if we were talking of Super Mario or the Sims or some other computer game at the local store.

But what we are doing every day is identifying with computer software called David Icke, Bill Smith, Ethel Jones, the white race, black race, Latino, Christian, Jew, Muslim. That is not who we are, but who we are told we are. And until we know different we will always be a manipulator's dream.

It should be apparent to anyone not on a witch-hunt that this is a philosophy entirely incompatible with racism in any form.

Here's a later picture from the newsletter:

That's the level on which the Illuminati want this 'debate' to be played out. On one side you have the white supremacists wanting their race to control their country and on the other you have the anti-fascist fascists, with their unblemished hearts-on-their-sleeves, calling everyone with another opinion a 'racist'.

Polarities of the same vibration​

I remember a police inspector telling me years ago that when he policed the marches of the National Front (a forerunner of the BNP) and their 'opposition', the Anti-Nazi League, he couldn't tell them apart, except for their banners. Of course not, they are polarities of each other - polarities of the same vibration. This is why you can't tell fascism and communism apart when it comes to techniques, attitudes and outcome.

For a lunatic he seems to make some pretty interesting points to me.

Either way, his bleatings deserve less much respect than pond-slime. In the former case cyanide would be a mercy; in the latter, largactyl.

Where are we coming from exactly when we call for 'cyanide'?

 

[Jazzz]

Yeah yeah very LaRouchian, the fact remains he consistently mentions jews in his conspiracy theory. Why? If he's not "anti semitic"?

No, the fact doesn't remain that he 'consistently mentions Jews', that's not true.

In the one quote you refer to, he is explaining how both sides in conflicts may be manipulated.

 

[8den]

No, the fact doesn't remain that he 'consistently mentions Jews', that's not true.

OH RLY?

http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/Ickequotes.htm

 

[Jazzz]

yes RLY that page contains 'selected' quotes, as it itself admits.

 

[fela fan]

Enjoyed reading post #553, cheers jazzz!

The man obviously knows how to speak sense, unlike some of his detractors.

 

[Blagsta]

I didn't read any quote saying that banking or political cartels were exclusively Jewish, and I am certain you would not find one.

Errrr....


*words fail me*

 

[Blagsta]

is what i found. certainly not exclusivly jewish.

You don't think that propagating such a lie is anti-semitic? The lie that a Jewish cabal plans wars and the holocaust? You don't think that is anti-semitic?

Again, words fail me.

 

[Blagsta]

even then he does not have anything negative to say about the jewish people.

*speechless*

I can only conclude that you're blind or trolling. I know you're not actually this stupid irl.

 

[RaverDrew]

*speechless*

I can only conclude that you're blind or trolling. I know you're not actually this stupid irl.

I can only conclude that have not read this thread or Icke's literature properly, and have merely taken selective quotes of his hugely out of context.

 

[editor]

I can only conclude that have not read this thread or Icke's literature properly, and have merely taken selective quotes of his hugely out of context.

Who gives a fuck anyway? He's an obnoxious nutter. Only a complete idiot would take anything the self proclaimed 'son of God' and alien-obsessive babbles on about seriously.

 

[Blagsta]

I can only conclude that have not read this thread or Icke's literature properly, and have merely taken selective quotes of his hugely out of context.

You're right, I haven't read his books. I don't need to - his quotes are anti-semitic - if you know a little of the history of the persecution of the Jews, they cannot be taken in any other way.

If he's not anti-semitic then he's really really naive and stupid.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Hum, here's Wiki on Icke and allegations of antisemitism.

 

[Fruitloop]

I remember a police inspector telling me years ago that when he policed the marches of the National Front (a forerunner of the BNP) and their 'opposition', the Anti-Nazi League, he couldn't tell them apart, except for their banners. Of course not, they are polarities of each other - polarities of the same vibration. This is why you can't tell fascism and communism apart when it comes to techniques, attitudes and outcome.

This is your idea of an interesting point? Jesus wept.

 

[editor]

Hum, here's Wiki on Icke and allegations of antisemitism.

There you have it:

In 1995, Alick Bartholomew of Gateway, at that time Icke's publisher, told the London Evening Standard that an early draft of ...and the truth shall set you free contained "revisionist Holocaust material"

Oh dear...

..."He maintains that the reptilians are not human, and therefore not Jewish, but are "extra-dimensional entities" that enter and control human minds."

 

[Badger Kitten]

Man is a foaming fruitbat.

In ...and the truth shall set you free, he wrote that:

"I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War. This Jewish/non-Jewish Elite used the First World War to secure the Balfour Declaration and the principle of the Jewish State of Israel). They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament." [7]

 

[Fruitloop]

Extra-dimensional reptiles is a bit of an oxymoronism isn't it? Don't worry, I'll counter the extra-dimensional reptiles with the power of my metaphysical weasel.

 

[Idris2002]

One of the earliest threads I posted on in my urban career was on this very subject.

Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose.

The more change i have the more i fancy moomins?