Noam Chomsky: 9-11: Institutional Analysis vs. Conspiracy Theory

[RaverDrew]

And I can point you to a number of people who met Icke and believe he's an anti-semite, including members who worked alongside him and subsequently threw him out of the Green Party, that hotbed of back-stabbing politicos. One of them's even a poster on these boards.

You're not dealing with the substantive point though Drew. If someone continually expounds the same views as raving anti-semites, albeit in a more polite manner and with some bizarre analogy of them as reptiles, does that really make them that much less odious? Or are we supposed to take the reptile nonsense literally and pity the man?

I can see where you are coming from, but from reading his stuff I really don't think that he has the same agenda as them. The reptiles are clearly not an analogy for Jews as he has never made any link between Jews and reptiles. The lizards run throughout society, regardless of race/ethnicity.

Anything even tenuously anti-semetic that he comes out with gets picked up on and magnified by those who his theories upset. Usually people that most on these forums would normally criticise as "religous nutjobs"

He makes himself a very easy target at times I must admit.

 

[Jazzz]

You're not dealing with the substantive point though Drew. If someone continually expounds the same views as raving anti-semites, albeit in a more polite manner and with some bizarre analogy of them as reptiles, does that really make them that much less odious? Or are we supposed to take the reptile nonsense literally and pity the man?

He is not saying that Jews are reptiles! He does not expound racist views at all. Quite the opposite. If he addresses the topic of race in one of his lectures, it's to explain that it is a ridiculous categorisation for human beings and as such racism is pure nonsense.

 

[Jazzz]

Mind you, there sure seems to be a lot of people who think his bonkers ravings are anti-semetic.

If there is one think I am entirely sure of, it's that you can have smoke without fire, and plenty of it too.

 

[tarannau]

If there is one think I am entirely sure of, it's that you can have smoke without fire, and plenty of it too.

Aye, but you can't have a building collapse after being hit by a whopping airliner without added explosives, holographic planes and/or missiles can you Jazzz?

 

[editor]

He is not saying that Jews are reptiles! He does not expound racist views at all. Quite the opposite. If he addresses the topic of race in one of his lectures, it's to explain that it is a ridiculous categorisation for human beings and as such racism is pure nonsense.

Who cares?

He's a nutcase anyway and only a fucking idiot would give the time of day to his bonkers shit about blood sucking lizards, the Queen Mum and, err, Kris Kristofersen and Bob Hope.

 

[tarannau]

He is not saying that Jews are reptiles! He does not expound racist views at all. Quite the opposite. If he addresses the topic of race in one of his lectures, it's to explain that it is a ridiculous categorisation for human beings and as such racism is pure nonsense.

We covered that already. Jews aren't reptiles according to Icke, but a disproportionate number of influential and famous jews conveniently just happen to be. They're not his kind of jews obviously.

The BNP also say that race doesn't matter. It's just that reptiles, I mean 'ethnics', should know their place and where they were brought up- not in Blighty in the BNP's case, or planet earth in the case of loony old Ickey.

 

[RaverDrew]

The BNP also say that race doesn't matter. It's just that reptiles, I mean 'ethnics', should know their place and where they were brought up- not in Blighty in the BNP's case, or planet earth in the case of loony old Ickey.

You what ?

 

[Jazzz]

We covered that already. Jews aren't reptiles according to Icke, but a disproportionate number of influential and famous jews conveniently just happen to be. They're not his kind of jews obviously.

Ah, the 'Royal we'! Jews aren't reptiles, no, they are human, and the humans are the victims. So far, having heard Icke speak twice, I don't feel the slightest bit inclined to challenge anyone Jewish that I meet with a mouse to see if they start flickering their tongue.

The BNP also say that race doesn't matter.

Crap. Aren't they against inter-racial marriages for instance?

 

[Blagsta]

From your same link ed

You don't think that such a distortion of (and downright lies about) history aren't anti-semitic? Really?

 

[Blagsta]

and this...

That's the view of one person...

 

[Blagsta]

He is not saying that Jews are reptiles! He does not expound racist views at all. Quite the opposite. If he addresses the topic of race in one of his lectures, it's to explain that it is a ridiculous categorisation for human beings and as such racism is pure nonsense.

So why does he bang on about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a fake btw) and Jewish conspiracies?

 

[Blagsta]

Crap. Aren't they against inter-racial marriages for instance?

The BNP these days often goes on about culture, not race.

 

[RaverDrew]

You don't think that such a distortion of (and downright lies about) history aren't anti-semitic? Really?

It's not a distortion of truth it's his personal opinion, note "I strongly believe..."

I don't think it is particuarly anti-semetic either

 

[Blagsta]

It's not a distortion of truth it's his personal opinion, note "I strongly believe..."

You don't think that's an attempt to distort the truth?

I don't think it is particuarly anti-semetic either

You don't? What on earth do you think is anti-semitic?

 

[RaverDrew]

You don't think that's an attempt to distort the truth?



You don't? What on earth do you think is anti-semitic?

To promote, incite, or cause harm and hostility to the Jewish people.

I've not seen Icke doing that.

 

[Blagsta]

So attempting to distort history in such a way that carries on the same form of historical anti-semitism, namely that there is a Jewish cabal controlling historical events and financial institutions, that isn't anti-semitic in your book? Come on drew, you're brighter than that.

 

[editor]

To promote, incite, or cause harm and hostility to the Jewish people.

Some people seem quite sure that he's guilty of - to quote my dictionary - "The intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people."

And why the fuck are you defending the dodgy nutter?

 

[RaverDrew]

So attempting to distort history in such a way that carries on the same form of historical anti-semitism, namely that their is a Jewish cabal controlling historical events and financial institutions, that isn't anti-semitic in your book? Come on drew, you're brighter than that.

It depends what his motivation for believing and promoting this is. If it was coming from a group that promoted intolerence, violence and hostility to Jews, then yes it would be a different matter.

Icke does not promote any negativity or hostility to the Jewish people, infact quite the opposite. He's not provoking hostility to anybody no matter what their race or religous beliefs are. This is why I think it is a cheap easy trick to just label him as an anti-semite.

 

[Blagsta]

Oh come on. There is a historical context to this. Icke is continuuing the myths of the Jews controlling politics and banking. That is anti-semitic.

 

[Mungy]

i don't think he said all jews controlled politics and banking, just some of them. if he'd have said some white christians controlled politics and banking would that be racist?

 

[Blagsta]

 

[Mungy]

i think i see what you mean by banging your head against a brick wall. icke is continuing the myth that banking and politics are controlled by jews.

i would imagine that banking and politics have been and still are controlled by families from all races, perhaps with the exeption of both native americans and australians.

 

[Blagsta]

i think i see what you mean by banging your head against a brick wall. icke is continuing the myth that banking and politics are controlled by jews.

Indeed. His use of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is very telling.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh, but it's only the bad Jews that are the problem! If you're a good Jew you're okay! That's not anti-semitic! Don't be so PC!

 

[Jazzz]

i would imagine that banking and politics have been and still are controlled by families from all races, perhaps with the exeption of both native americans and australians.

Yes, and Icke doesn't say any different.

It's those trying to label him as anti-semitic that say because he says the world is run by an elite banking cartel, he's having a go at 'The Jews'. Go figure.

 

[Blagsta]

Yes, and Icke doesn't say any different.

Yes he does. Are you blind?

 

[Jazzz]

Yes he does. Are you blind?

Where? I've actually read some of his stuff.

 

[Blagsta]

He's been quoted on this thread.

 

[Jazzz]

I didn't read any quote saying that banking or political cartels were exclusively Jewish, and I am certain you would not find one.

 

[Mungy]

"I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."

is what i found. certainly not exclusivly jewish.