9/11 The Conspiracy Files

[Jazzz]

The two other crashes mentioned were light aircraft. In the case of Cory Liddle it was travelling far slower than flight 93 would have been and I suspect that's true with the other one too.

It's the WTC where the passport story is ridiculous - how on earth can a passport survive where the black box does not?

I find the idea that a passport somehow made it through outside the WTC and then survived the ensuing huge fireball utterly ridiculous. Oh, and then it landed 'a few blocks away' and just happened to be found - not by a member of the public - but by an FBI chap, ready to be broadcast on the news the very next day.

Really you believe that, you'll believe anything. But go on, fool yourselves you are employing 'observation and critical analysis' when what you are doing is swallowing authority wholesale.

 

[Cid]

And this?

(wreckage of an MD-80)

Pay attention Jazzz...

e2a: The image is from the Colombian West Caribbean MD-80 that tragically crashed in Venezuela in 2005 killing all 160 passengers. The relevence here being the clear survival of numerous everyday objects... The MD-80 is certainly not a small aircraft.

 

[editor]

My line of reasoning is fine thanks.

Saying that the destructive qualities of a little plane like this

are to be used to explain explosions and damage caused by jets that destroyed two massive buildings.......it's just as bad as what the CTists say...except because it belongs to your side of the argument it's to be allowed?

Are you saying that a passport has never survived a large scale passenger jet crash then?


Because if you're not, err, what's your point?

 

[superkev]

Liddle

Lidle.

I'm sorry. This bothers me a lot.

 

[editor]

I find the idea that a passport somehow made it through outside the WTC and then survived the ensuing huge fireball utterly ridiculous. Oh, and then it landed 'a few blocks away' and just happened to be found - not by a member of the public - but by an FBI chap, ready to be broadcast on the news the very next day.

Maybe that's because most members of the public had long since fled the scene and only emergency services were left in the area, you fucking idiot. The area was sealed off.

I'm losing track of the times I have to correct your idiotic common-sense free notions.

 

[DexterTCN]

Are you saying that a passport has never survived a large scale passenger jet crash then?


Because if you're not, err, what's your point?

My point is that you're making a shite argument, one which if it was made by the other side, would be pulled to bits.

However, because you are an antiCTist...no-one pulls you up on it.

The point is not whether or not a passport was found, nor if it was planted or manufactured. The point is the argument you are using to prove it.

 

[Cid]

My point is that you're making a shite argument, one which if it was made by the other side, would be pulled to bits.

However, because you are an antiCTist...no-one pulls you up on it.

The point is not whether or not a passport was found, nor if it was planted or manufactured. The point is the argument you are using to prove it.

Similar physical principles apply to a smaller crash, think of it as a scale model of the effects. The photo I posted of the MD-80 is perhaps more relevant, but meh.

 

[editor]

The point is not whether or not a passport was found, nor if it was planted or manufactured. The point is the argument you are using to prove it.

I was simply giving two, quickly-found examples of passports surviving plane crashes, but Cid has further proved the point now anyway.

But thanks for your fascinating intervention.

 

[kyser_soze]

This is really fucking stupid - passports and suitcases survived the Pan Am bombing, the Iranian Airlines Airbus that was downed by the USS Vincennes in 1990 and on coutless other occassions.

Shit happens, deal with it. Are the chances of the passport surviving and being found by an FBI agent slim? At the outset probably, but we don't know the complete story of where it started in the plane, we don't know which direction it was blown out by the fireball...if your arguments for 9/11 being a setup are coming down to items where it's absolutely impossible to trace a story for it's a clear sign that the straws are out.

BTW Jazz, looked at the Protec report about why it wasn't CD, and how there wouldn't have been molten metal, and a credible statement about the collapse of WTC7?

 

[tarannau]

It's the WTC where the passport story is ridiculous - how on earth can a passport survive where the black box does not?

How on earth can you keep on making such confident statements? You keep on making your lack of real knowledge and reasoning clear to all.

 

[dogmatique]

Are the chances of the passport surviving and being found by an FBI agent slim?

Not really...

Who the fuck else is going to be rooting around in the wreckage of an incident of International Terrorism? Erm, the postman? Erm, binmen? Or perhaps, those charged with investigating acts of international terrorism. Like, maybe, the FBI.

Or just maybe, fireman picks up passport, thinks, "duh, this just might be the kind of thing that those FBI chaps over there are looking for, maybe i should give this to them."

 

[Blagsta]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

FUCK OFF

 

[kyser_soze]

Not really...

Who the fuck else is going to be rooting around in the wreckage of an incident of International Terrorism? Erm, the postman? Erm, binmen? Or perhaps, those charged with investigating acts of international terrorism. Like, maybe, the FBI.

Or just maybe, fireman picks up passport, thinks, "duh, this just might be the kind of thing that those FBI chaps over there are looking for, maybe i should give this to them."

Watch out, you could be dangerously close to applying logic to the situation, especially that bit about how someone tasked with sifting through wreckage for stuff like this might actually be the person to find it...

 

[DexterTCN]

Similar physical principles apply to a smaller crash, think of it as a scale model of the effects. The photo I posted of the MD-80 is perhaps more relevant, but meh.

Similar principles would apply if the scale applied.

There is no scale.

The passports were the same size on both occasions so the resultant damage would be an order of magnitude above in the larger explosion.

Hit a child at 30 mph and there's an 80% chance she'll live, hit her at 5 times the speed with 100 times the mass.....you cannot say she will live because she lived in the smaller example, she didn't get 100 times bigger for the 2nd impact/explosion.

Cid's (logical base for his) argument is as rubbish as the Ed's. So one set of rules is being applied to the CTists, whilst the antiCTists are allowed to use fallacious arguments and get away with it.

Anyway...didn't they lock themselves in the cockpit?

 

[editor]

Hit a child at 30 mph and there's an 80% chance she'll live, hit her at 5 times the speed with 100 times the mass.....you cannot say she will live because she lived in the smaller example, she didn't get 100 times bigger for the 2nd impact/explosion.

You're comparing a living human child with a laminated passport - while accusing someone else of having flawed logic?!!

Fabulous stuff!

 

[Jazzz]

Pay attention Jazzz...

e2a: The image is from the Colombian West Caribbean MD-80 that tragically crashed in Venezuela in 2005 killing all 160 passengers. The relevence here being the clear survival of numerous everyday objects... The MD-80 is certainly not a small aircraft.

Right. I'm sure you would also find large, identifiable pieces of fuselage too, unlike flight 93. Also we can be sure the black boxes were found, because they'd always been recovered from all terrestrial crashes before 9/11. Yet four went missing at the WTC. And with the WTC we had that fireball thing going too.

It just seems something of a coincidence that out of the things which apparently survive these crashes and building collapses, hijacker's passports seem to have a better chance than black boxes, bones, and large bits of airplane. It's awfully convenient.

 

[1927]

It's the WTC where the passport story is ridiculous - how on earth can a passport survive where the black box does not?

Sure I have read somewhere witness statements that 3 of the 4 black boxes were recovered, but this is officially denied.

As far as Ed's questions about where were the secret wires for explosive devices, I was listening to a phone in on Radio 5 on Monday following the prog and one caller explained that the reason he survived the crashes was that he was off work for the day, having worked the previous weekend. the reason he worked the weekend was because the WTC above floor 50 or thereabouts was totally without power as there was a REWIRING exercise going on and he had to be there to powere up the computer systems in the bank where he worked. The rewiring exercise has been officially denied. Why, if it happened why deny it, this is the type of denial that only leads to conspiracy theories. There cannot possibly be any national security reason why it can't be admitted unless there is something to hide!

 

[8den]

Right. I'm sure you would also find large, identifiable pieces of fuselage too, unlike flight 93. Also we can be sure the black boxes were found, because they'd always been recovered from all terrestrial crashes before 9/11.

Yet four went missing at the WTC. And with the WTC we had that fireball thing going too.

How many of them were the planes going full throttle into a skyscraper

It just seems something of a coincidence that out of the things which apparently survive these crashes and building collapses, hijacker's passports seem to have a better chance than black boxes, bones, and large bits of airplane. It's awfully convenient.

It's "awfully convenient" because you want to see "teh conspiracy"

Seriously does no one have a picture of this tard with his puppet or am I going to have to go to some troofer do and get a picture myself? I'm not sure how I'll cope surrounded by that much distilled stupidity

 

[editor]

It just seems something of a coincidence that out of the things which apparently survive these crashes and building collapses, hijacker's passports seem to have a better chance than black boxes, bones, and large bits of airplane. It's awfully convenient.

Are you going to answer my questions yet, wriggle-boy?

 

[WouldBe]

Right. I'm sure you would also find large, identifiable pieces of fuselage too, unlike flight 93.

They are still discovering WWII bombers on the moors they didn't know where there.

Also we can be sure the black boxes were found, because they'd always been recovered from all terrestrial crashes before 9/11.

I'm sure you have previously stated that the black boxes from flight 93 were recovered?

Yet four went missing at the WTC.

A couple of pounds of black box out of a million tonnes of rubble and pools of apparently 'molten' steel and your somehow suprised.

And with the WTC we had that fireball thing going too.

If this is refering to the passport then how do you explain the rain of A4 paper from the towers immediately after the crash and fireball. How did A4 paper survive yet a passport should somehow have been destroyed?

 

[editor]

As far as Ed's questions about where were the secret wires for explosive devices, I was listening to a phone in on Radio 5 on Monday following the prog and one caller explained that the reason he survived the crashes was that he was off work for the day, having worked the previous weekend. the reason he worked the weekend was because the WTC above floor 50 or thereabouts was totally without power as there was a REWIRING exercise going on and he had to be there to powere up the computer systems in the bank where he worked. The rewiring exercise has been officially denied.

And so when the tens of thousands of workers came back in the following day, why do you think all of them failed to spot the thousands - yes thousands - of explosives and miles of cables needed to blow their building to smithereens?

There'd be dirty great big holes drilled into walls, partition walls ripped down, ceilings removed and explosives placed all over the place.

Have you the slightest idea how much work is needed to blow up a huge building?

I suggest you do yourself a favour and read back through this thread where this was discussed because only a fucking idiot would even think that it's possible to invisibly wire up a building in a few hours - and then use magic explosives that survive a plane crash and resultant inferno.

 

[Jazzz]

How many of them were the planes going full throttle into a skyscraper

Not many, but some were going full throttle into mountains.

 

[Jazzz]

And so when the tens of thousands of workers came back in the following day, why do you think all of them failed to spot the thousands - yes thousands - of explosives and miles of cables needed to blow their building to smithereens?

There'd be dirty great big holes drilled into walls, partition walls ripped down, ceilings removed and explosives placed all over the place.

They wouldn't need wires if remote-controlled detonation was used. Not as cheap as the wired stuff, but that's no object here.

 

[1927]

And so when the tens of thousands of workers came back in the following day, why do you think all of them failed to spot the thousands - yes thousands - of explosives and miles of cables needed to blow their building to smithereens?

There'd be dirty great big holes drilled into walls, partition walls ripped down, ceilings removed and explosives placed all over the place.

Have you the slightest idea how much work is needed to blow up a huge building?

I suggest you do yourself a favour and read back through this thread where this was discussed because only a fucking idiot would even think that it's possible to invisibly wire up a building in a few hours - and then use magic explosives that survive a plane crash and resultant inferno.

I think there are some double standards at play on this thread.

We are meant to believe that a passport survived the fireballs, after all posters have produced evidence that a mass of personal possessions survived. But on the other hand when questions are raised about the black boxes surviving, posters ask how many other planes slammed into skyscrapers!!

the official line is that the WTC was felled because the steel in the upper floors weakened and this caused a concertina effect, yet you ask if I have an idea how much explosives would be needed to fell them. Well probably not much if you only needed to weaken the upper floors.

 

[editor]

the official line is that the WTC was felled because the steel in the upper floors weakened and this caused a concertina effect, yet you ask if I have an idea how much explosives would be needed to fell them. Well probably not much if you only needed to weaken the upper floors.

Then you haven't a clue.

 

[editor]

They wouldn't need wires if remote-controlled detonation was used. Not as cheap as the wired stuff, but that's no object here.

Apart from the immense risk of using remote control devices and the huge undertaking that priming an enormous block with plane-crash-proof explosives would present, could you explain where the thousands of explosives were placed please (which floors and offices), how long it took and offer an explanation why not a living soul saw a thing?

Thanks.

 

[laptop]

We are meant to believe that a passport survived the fireballs, after all posters have produced evidence that a mass of personal possessions survived.

Sigh.

• The passport would have been in the front of the plane.
• The front of the plane went right through the building and out the other side.
• So its contents were scattered over Lower Manhattan.
• Black boxes are usually firmly fixed to the rear of the plane.
• So the black boxes were:
  1. Caught up in an intense fire;
  2. Then had a big chunk of the one of world's tallest skyscrapers fall on them
  3. Then got mixed up in the rubble of the whole skyscraper

Spot the difference?

 

[1927]

Then you haven't a clue.

Didn't realise you were an expert in the demoilition business,
and if you are not then how much more about the subject do you think you know than me?

 

[editor]

Oh, and seeing as some people seem to be drifting into some sort of fantasy land where enormous buildings can be felled with a few little explosives hidden away, here's a reminder of what was needed to bring down a building far smaller than the WTC:

CDI’s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI’s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.
http://www.controlled-demolition.com/default.asp?reqLocId=7&reqItemId=20030225133807

Feel free to elaborate, 1927.

 

[editor]

And look how much work was needed for this little thing!

CDI had Aman’s drilling subcontractor drill 5,905 holes for CDI’s explosive placements in the tension and compression rings, roof ribs, columns and support structure under the Kingdome. During loading operations, CDI laid 21.6 miles of detonating cord and placed more than 4,700 lb. of explosives in critical locations to control the fall of the structure and reduce vibration. The explosives detonation sequence utilized over 900 delays both to control the fall of the structure, mitigate air overpressure and to enhance fragmentation of resultant debris.