New Social Security benefit cap to hurt hundreds of thousands, including disabled people.

[existentialist]

It is not aimed at people on here, not on people who have comittments, etc, its focused on the people who do have the resources and frequently do turn up for the many events, especially in London, there was one last week.

Its a really baffling phenomenon, this lack of support for some of the most vulnerable in the U.k, which i just cannot work out. I welcome a courteous and informed discussion on it.

I don't think going on about it is going to do any good. If people aren't going on protests, handwringing about it a) isn't going to make them more likely to (probably the opposite, in case they find themselves having to start justifying themselves to people like you on the protest), and b) just serves to offer ammunition to those who'd argue that "the left" just argues with itself all the time.

Rather than bemoan the fact that others fail to demonstrate the nobility of commitment you achieve, why not concentrate on celebrating what is done, and perhaps people will go because it sounds like a great thing to do, rather than because some moany self-appointed activist type has griped about them not doing enough.

Also, remember that it's not all about marches, banners, and Swappie rags. Some people are Doing Their Bit by quietly helping, supporting, and assisting people being oppressed by the system to avoid being tricked and cheated by it. They may not, unlike you, wish to trumpet their achievements for all to hear, nor be doing it so as to garner lots of Activist Cred. You don't know what their lives and activities are like, and you are not entitled to sit in judgement on them.

 

[treelover]

lso, remember that it's not all about marches, banners, and Swappie rags. Some people are Doing Their Bit by quietly helping, supporting, and assisting people being oppressed by the system to avoid being tricked and cheated by it. They may not, unlike you, wish to trumpet their achievements for all to hear, nor be doing it so as to garner lots of Activist Cred. You don't know what their lives and activities are like, and you are not entitled to sit in judgement on them.

Er, i only mention that when under attack from Pickmans, which sadly is frequently, in terms of activists, they can make the most noise, look at STW, under the radar work is crucial and all hail them, but it is also a war of public opinion and numbers do matter.

 

[existentialist]

Er, i only mention that when under attack from Pickmans, which sadly is frequently, in terms of activists, they can make the most noise, look at STW, under the radar work is crucial and all hail them, but it is also a war of public opinion and numbers do matter.

Fine. You're always right, it's everyone else's fault, they're all marching out of step anyway, and you have every right to hector us at every opportunity.

Good luck with that, then

 

[Pickman's model]

Er, i only mention that when under attack from Pickmans, which sadly is frequently, in terms of activists, they can make the most noise, look at STW, under the radar work is crucial and all hail them, but it is also a war of public opinion and numbers do matter.

I'd like to say that was worth waiting for but I'd be lying

 

[Pickman's model]

blimey, you'd make a good ATOS employee

Disappointed and surprised you come out with this. What next, telling a legal observer they'd make a good cop?

 

[treelover]

Two-way mirrors, hidden observers: welcome to the Department for Work and Pensions laboratory

Disturbing.

 

[equationgirl]

Two-way mirrors, hidden observers: welcome to the Department for Work and Pensions laboratory

Disturbing.

But sadly, not wholly surprising, given that the DWP seem to assume many claimants are akin to criminals anyway - it's not a huge leap to imagine somebody thinking 'the police deal with criminals all the time, i bet they could give us some tips'.

 

[equationgirl]

Observation of claimants happens at present anyway, all this does is make it less blatant, more covert.

 

[smokedout]

Two-way mirrors, hidden observers: welcome to the Department for Work and Pensions laboratory

Disturbing.

Not one person who has blogged/posted about this seems to have bothered to read the contract specs to find out what this test is about.

It is not mandatory, participants volunteer and are paid for their time. It's just testing the new It systems, that's why they're using eye tracking to watch where people look on the screen. People have got to stop screaming omg nazis at everything before understanding what's it's really about cos it makes us look like dicks.

And bloggers should do the fucking work and actually read up on what they're writing about instead of churning out inaccurate clickbait shite so so they can massage their egos with high Facebook share counts

 

[equationgirl]

Any comments on what you wrote Orang Utan?

 

[Orang Utan]

Any comments on what you wrote Orang Utan?

Not really. It was a flippant comment but i stand by it.

 

[Pickman's model]

But sadly, not wholly surprising, given that the DWP seem to assume many claimants are akin to criminals anyway - it's not a huge leap to imagine somebody thinking 'the police deal with criminals all the time, i bet they could give us some tips'.

when i have been interviewed by the police there's never been a bloody great mirror on one wall, either in london or dublin.

 

[smokedout]

2. PURPOSE
2.1 Digital Services developed via the Authority are required to meet the Government Digital Service (GDS) service standards which require extensive user research and testing to be undertaken. This requires recruitment of appropriate participants and facilities so that DWP can ensure the user is kept at the centre of the design and services can continue to add value to the user, thus encouraging use of the services and assisting with channel shift which supports the digital by default strategy.
2.2 On-going user research is an integral component of GDS assessments that take place at the end of each phase and represents one of the 18 service standards that are assessed.

3.1 In a typical lab situation DWP shall have one DWP researcher in a room with the participant and other DWP researchers (if appropriate) and invited observers behind a two way mirror evaluating what is happening. As well as viewing the interview they can also see the activity on the web screen via monitors in their room. The proceedings are currently recorded on MP4 for subsequent use when research findings are being reported. The participants cannot see the people in the viewing facility though they know they are there.

4.4.5 The Supplier will provide incentive payments to the participants to maximise recruitment.

https://www.contractsfinder.service...59f10&id=e424ff5f-70b2-49af-8370-5789ac59a0c9

All government departments carry out research like this, all the time

 

[smokedout]

Sometimes the NHS carries out clinical trials on people!!! It's like Auschwitz all over again.

 

[KittyJ]

But sadly, not wholly surprising, given that the DWP seem to assume many claimants are akin to criminals anyway - it's not a huge leap to imagine somebody thinking 'the police deal with criminals all the time, i bet they could give us some tips'.

Sometimes the NHS carries out clinical trials on people!!! It's like Auschwitz all over again.

Sometimes the NHS carries out clinical trials on people!!! It's like Auschwitz all over again.

The NHS trials have participant CONSENT, the DWP ones do not. There's a world of difference between "medical conditions" and social problems such as unemployment and poverty.

 

[Pickman's model]

The NHS trials have participant CONSENT, the DWP ones do not. There's a world of difference between "medical conditions" and social problems such as unemployment and poverty.

Yeh like there was consent on the sale sharing of NHS records.

 

[KittyJ]

Not one person who has blogged/posted about this seems to have bothered to read the contract specs to find out what this test is about.

It is not mandatory, participants volunteer and are paid for their time. It's just testing the new It systems, that's why they're using eye tracking to watch where people look on the screen. People have got to stop screaming omg nazis at everything before understanding what's it's really about cos it makes us look like dicks.

And bloggers should do the fucking work and actually read up on what they're writing about instead of churning out inaccurate clickbait shite so so they can massage their egos with high Facebook share counts

If you read the blog you will see that most of the trials conducted by the DWP ARE mandatory. The contract isn't for just that one piece of work carried out LAT YEAR. I posted up a link to the contract and the work carried out last year, I DO the "fucking work" and evidence what I say. I never mentioned "nazis" anywhere in the article, and suggest that in future, before leaping in and erecting straw man arguments you actually READ the content. The BPS and BACUP, plus academics hav actually acknowledged my work on the misuse of psychology by this government, and have responded with statements of ethical guidelines which set out the need for informed consent in research, whilst denouncing the use of welfare sanctions as punishment. My work is not "inaccurate" or "clickbate", I don't get paid to write public interest articles, I do so because I feel I must. I ALWAYS evidence what I say.

 

[KittyJ]

If you read the blog you will see that most of the trials conducted by the DWP ARE mandatory. The contract isn't for just that one piece of work carried out LAST YEAR. I posted up a link to the contracts, which I DID read, (Hence the quotes fromthem) and as I said, the work was carried out last year. I DO the "fucking work" and evidence what I say. You clearly didn't grasp the points raised about methodology and user-led interventions, which does not entail two-way mirrors and hidden observers, but rather, ought to entail DIALOGUE with those users.

I never mentioned "nazis" anywhere in the article, and suggest that in future, before leaping in and erecting straw man arguments you actually READ the contentof what you are knee-jerking against. The BPS and BACUP, plus several academics have actually acknowledged my work on the misuse of psychology by this government, and have responded with statements of ethical guidelines which set out the need for informed consent in research, whilst denouncing the use of welfare sanctions as punishment. My work is not "inaccurate" or "clickbate", I don't get paid to write public interest articles, I do so because I feel I must. I ALWAYS evidence what I say. I'm a disabled activist, I specialise in research methodology among other things,

 

[equationgirl]

Not really. It was a flippant comment but i stand by it.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself, quite frankly, ATOS have been shown to have contributed towards the deaths of (sadly) more than one claimant, and all I did was correct two facts amongst some sensationalist reporting/summarising.

If you think my posts are equivalent to being hounded to death by ATOS and the DWP then you need to have a word with yourself, because to make that comparison is rather offensive.

And i think you know that - so why are you looking to cause such offence on a thread like this one?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not really. It was a flippant comment but i stand by it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Then you should be ashamed of yourself, quite frankly, ATOS have been shown to have contributed towards the deaths of (sadly) more than one claimant, and all I did was correct two facts amongst some sensationalist reporting/summarising.

If you think my posts are equivalent to being hounded to death by ATOS and the DWP then you need to have a word with yourself, because to make that comparison is rather offensive.

And i think you know that - so why are you looking to cause such offence on a thread like this one?

You are free to be offended. But if I was to offer an apology, it would be insincere. So apologies for not apologising.

 

[treelover]

If you read the blog you will see that most of the trials conducted by the DWP ARE mandatory. The contract isn't for just that one piece of work carried out LAT YEAR. I posted up a link to the contract and the work carried out last year, I DO the "fucking work" and evidence what I say. I never mentioned "nazis" anywhere in the article, and suggest that in future, before leaping in and erecting straw man arguments you actually READ the content. The BPS and BACUP, plus academics hav actually acknowledged my work on the misuse of psychology by this government, and have responded with statements of ethical guidelines which set out the need for informed consent in research, whilst denouncing the use of welfare sanctions as punishment. My work is not "inaccurate" or "clickbate", I don't get paid to write public interest articles, I do so because I feel I must. I ALWAYS evidence what I say.

valuable blog, kitty, welcome to P/P, please continue to post on such important issues.

 

[equationgirl]

You are free to be offended. But if I was to offer an apology, it would be insincere. So apologies for not apologising.

Why are you behaving like an utter wanker on this thread?

 

[Orang Utan]

I just expressed annoyance with a pointed remark. Hardly worth this fuss.

 

[smokedout]

If you read the blog you will see that most of the trials conducted by the DWP ARE mandatory. The contract isn't for just that one piece of work carried out LAT YEAR. I posted up a link to the contract and the work carried out last year, I DO the "fucking work" and evidence what I say. I never mentioned "nazis" anywhere in the article, and suggest that in future, before leaping in and erecting straw man arguments you actually READ the content. The BPS and BACUP, plus academics hav actually acknowledged my work on the misuse of psychology by this government, and have responded with statements of ethical guidelines which set out the need for informed consent in research, whilst denouncing the use of welfare sanctions as punishment. My work is not "inaccurate" or "clickbate", I don't get paid to write public interest articles, I do so because I feel I must. I ALWAYS evidence what I say.

Some of the trials carried out by the DWP have been mandatory, but this one isn't, in fact people get paid. It has nothing to do with any previous nudge unit work, it is nothing to do psychology at all, it is not the participants being tested but the new IT systems. The eye-trackers are used to measure where people look on the screen, this is normal testing for any large scale public IT interface. Do you want them to launch online services without first testing whether people can actually use them or not?

If you'd read the contract notes you would have known this, if you have the integrity you claim you will publish a retraction/clarification of what these tests actually are. You might also change the claim the nudge unit recommended the increased sanction regime, the link you point to is actually the CESI think tank, and the increased sanctions regime was proposed by Labour in 2008.

 

[equationgirl]

I just expressed annoyance with a pointed remark. Hardly worth this fuss.

What do you expect when you equate fact checking with hounding people to death?

 

[Orang Utan]

What do you expect when you equate fact checking with hounding people to death?

I'm worse than Hitler

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm worse than Hitler

Worse than tyndall anyway

 

[Pickman's model]

I just expressed annoyance with a pointed remark. Hardly worth this fuss.

Pity the point was in the wrong direction

 

[equationgirl]

I'm worse than Hitler

No, you pretty much said I was.

Thanks for that.