ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
He'll chuck it away. He's dead anyway, after the strike stuff. They're all going down.
Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"
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He'll chuck it away. He's dead anyway, after the strike stuff. They're all going down.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
a bloody good one
PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
Even if David Cameron and Rupert Murdoch were found with Maddie's corpse, Milliband wouldn't be able to make political capital out of it. The man is a joke.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he is effete and ineffectual
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Who the fuck is "they"??
Sorry but.. "they" is us. They won't be held to account by the Met Police, because members of the Met Police were taking bribe money in exchange for phone tapping.
The judges and the jury here bypass the norms of "law and order" and justice will be served regardless of law, in much the same manner that Tunisia and Egypt said "enough is enough".
This hasn't even started yet.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Fair point, pk. and yes, clearly there are coppers arse-deep in the shit over this.
I hope you're right.
However, 'they' is not a completely vague conspiraloon reference. 'They' are Cameron, Murdoch and their powerful friends (friends and powerful for now, that is). That specific 'they' will be doing their damndess to try to keep the blame on the few 'bad apples' at the bottom. Ronald Reagan was not brought down by the Iran-Contra affair, remember. Blair is still walking free. Getting the blame to rise to where it truly belongs is not an easy task.
I hope you're right.
However, 'they' is not a completely vague conspiraloon reference. 'They' are Cameron, Murdoch and their powerful friends (friends and powerful for now, that is). That specific 'they' will be doing their damndess to try to keep the blame on the few 'bad apples' at the bottom. Ronald Reagan was not brought down by the Iran-Contra affair, remember. Blair is still walking free. Getting the blame to rise to where it truly belongs is not an easy task.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
yep, cos that's the big story here innit?
i think what's interesting is one, that it took a member of the "normal people" to be hacked that bought the thing to a head in the first place, when previously people had been relaxed when it was "celebrities" or politicians; and two, the issue of the notw allegedly paying the cops to both provide info and go easy on the inquiry has been kicked into the long grass largely by the focus on the "horror" for the "victims".
which isn't to downplay the severity of what occurred or the distress i can imagine it's caused, but i think there are bigger fish to fry than simply identifying ever more speculative "victims" or deflect attention onto players who, quite frankly, don't mean a damn.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
any criminal cases will probably take a year or so to conclude, at which point a toothless, long winded public enquiry will start with main aim being to further dampen any remaining anger amongst weary populace.
What kind of 'changes' does anyone see coming in terms of the way the media will be regulated / overseen ?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's not the problem. The problem is who owns the media. If you don't change that, you haven't changed anything important.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
What is important is the mantra of hearts and minds, the mainstay of UK public opinion.
Forget law. "Regulation". It's over. The internets is here! This really is it folks. You're either with it or against it.
And of course companies like Google have been collecting and scraping data from us all for over a decade, they're probably looking at everyone here right now.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
IN the massively unlikely event of Murdoch / his offspring being no longer able to own papers / digital media channels etc in this country ( and only this country ) , do you believe someone more enlightened is likely to replace him/them ?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
yep, cos that's the big story here innit?
i think what's interesting is one, that it took a member of the "normal people" to be hacked that bought the thing to a head in the first place, when previously people had been relaxed when it was "celebrities" or politicians; and two, the issue of the notw allegedly paying the cops to both provide info and go easy on the inquiry has been kicked into the long grass largely by the focus on the "horror" for the "victims".
which isn't to downplay the severity of what occurred or the distress i can imagine it's caused, but i think there are bigger fish to fry than simply identifying ever more speculative "victims" or deflect attention onto players who, quite frankly, don't mean a damn.
Agree completely about agricola's weirdly tribal bitterness, but I disagree about the importance of finding more 'victims'. Rose Gentle was just on the Beeb ("If it's true I'll never buy any of their papers ever again"), Reg Keays will surely be on it soon (if I haven't missed him already). There are loads of military families who will vent their righteous fury, and they will have masses of support. And they fucking hate Blair too, and he needs to stay firmly in that frame, along with every other PM in the last 30 years.
I don't know who is responsible for drip-feeding these details, but they are doing a magnificent job of keeping fresh interviewees on each day. I can't remember the TV news being so obsessed by something since 9/11.
At this rate, in a few weeks time, it'll be big enough news to headline!
They are so digging themselves a hole.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
That bird off Harry Potter has grown up quickly....
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What is needed is a move towards a different model of media ownership. In a true democracy no one individual or organisation would be allowed to own more than one media outlet in any given medium.
These are huge questions that go way beyond Murdoch and concern the meaning of democratic discourse. The fall of Murdoch could facilitate a discussion about such things.
These are huge questions that go way beyond Murdoch and concern the meaning of democratic discourse. The fall of Murdoch could facilitate a discussion about such things.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Err yeah, but that bird off Harry Potter has grown up quickly....
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
i don't think its "important" to find more victims, i think its being used to cover up the bigger story, which is the systematic use of hacking by more or less all printed media in this country, apparently.Agree completely about agricola's weirdly tribal bitterness, but I disagree about the importance of finding more 'victims'. Rose Gentle was just on the Beeb ("If it's true I'll never buy any of their papers ever again"), Reg Keays will surely be on it soon (if I haven't missed him already). There are loads of military families who will vent their righteous fury, and they will have masses of support. And they fucking hate Blair too, and he needs to stay firmly in that frame, along with every other PM in the last 30 years.
I don't know who is responsible for drip-feeding these details, but they are doing a magnificent job of keeping fresh interviewees on each day. I can't remember the TV news being so obsessed by something since 9/11.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Problem is, most people don't think like that. Most people are consumers of the media, not producers of it. That's why the likes of Murdoch have been able to thrive.
Bottom line is that until millions people stop thinking it is a good thing to read papers like the Sun every day, there's little hope of real change. To get rid of the likes of Murdoch, a cultural change needs to take place. I'm not sure how near we are to effecting such a change.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Yes We Can.
gavman
pj slumpy
i think the whole question of media ownership, by conglomerates or outside interests, needs to be examined.
my view is that newspapers should be run as either co-operatives, worker's collectives, or partnerships in the manner of legal practises, so no one person can influence more than one outlet
my view is that newspapers should be run as either co-operatives, worker's collectives, or partnerships in the manner of legal practises, so no one person can influence more than one outlet
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
How many of the people who buy the Sun, the Star and other such rags every day also think that? To be blunt, how many of them even think that deeply about it? Yes, you have to tackle Murdoch and his like, but you also have to tackle the demand that they have produced/has produced them (it seems like a classic dialectical relationship).
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
And where in that scenario is the mechanism for the absolute imperative of toothsome politcal watchdog?
The one thing the Murdoch press does better than any organisation in the world is sniff out the merest hint of political wrongdoing. 'kin Rottweilers.
yep, cos [Baldwin]'s the big story here innit?
Agricola has a point about Baldwin.
Peter Oborne - Tory to the marrow but entirely on the ball on this:
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Yep, well that's OFCOM's position. They brought that phrase into play, I believe.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
Pretty sure I read in Private Eye that James Murdoch was the best man at the Brooks marriage
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