el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
missed that. well, he can hardly bloody talk about hooliganism or racism and the team's failure to deal with either.
Millwall fans conform with stereotype shocker ....
- Thread starter aylee
- Start date
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
liverpool should be disbanded. heysel was in 1985 and the fans are still trying to kill people
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/...ach-attacked-by-liverpool-hooligans-1-5278931
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/...ach-attacked-by-liverpool-hooligans-1-5278931
bromley
...isn't as good as Lewisham.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
The common thread here is the coaches themselves. Time and time again coaches are in the thick of trouble at football. The only certain way to deal with this is to ban supporters using them to travel to games.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
There's so much multi-quoting to be done there and I've just ballsed up trying to do it.
I'll try and respond. A lot of the answers to my posts have been pretty poor, trying to divert the focus away from the problems at Millwall. I support Liverpool. The posts about "trying to kill" at Heysel betray the poster's ignorance about events on that night. Liverpool fans were of course a reason for the tragedy but no-one was murdered. Some Liverpool fans were prosecuted for manslaughter and rightly so. Other factors were also important in causing the disaster. I would say that Liverpool does on the whole deal with hooliganism well these days and doesn't have an endemic problem. The club messed up over racism last year and quite badly too, but again it wasn't based on a section of the club's support's long-standing hatred for ethnic minorities. The coach incident linked to here doesn't seem to have anything to do with LFC. Maybe that was Liverpool "fans", or Everton ones or just badly behaved thugs. It doesn't say.
The idea that "he can hardly talk" is bollocks too. Yes, I can - even if all of those things were or are true about my club I'd still have every right to feel how I do about hooliganism and racism.
The event where I saw an anti-racism hoarding jumped up and down it did indeed seem to have been picked especially judging by the offender's actions and movements. I could be wrong there though. I don't mind admitting I can't be completely sure.
I dislike Real Madrid quite a lot and have said so regularly. I have not once "wanked on" about them. I do "wank on" about La Liga in the La Liga thread, which seems fair enough.
While I understand that my view on Millwall is rather extreme and hardly likely to win me a host of fans, I honestly think they're a uniquely bad case for the game and we'd be better off without them. We've years of evidence to look at. Crystal balls don't use evidence to make predictions. I do and I we can safely predict that Millwall will continue to be a problem in the future.
You've come up with a load of facetious answers to my posts and that's fine because if you can't do that on an internet message board where can you do it? Let me ask some serious questions though and you can give me serious answers.
Let's say you're all right and I'm over-reacting, What should we do with Milwall? Just accept that it's okay to have a club that continues to have such entrenched problems with hatred, racism and violence? It seems that the reaction of many is just to say that West Ham or Chelsea are bad too. "The other boy was doing it as well Sir." doesn't seem a good enough excuse to me.
Should we tolerate a certain amount of the problems attached to the club? The big disturbances seem to be only every once every couple of seasons or so these days so maybe that's in the boundaries of the acceptable for other people. Or do we not accept the status quo and do things like fine them more money when things go wrong? Or take other measures that might work? What might those measures be?
Come on, that's a fair response. Help me out.
I'll try and respond. A lot of the answers to my posts have been pretty poor, trying to divert the focus away from the problems at Millwall. I support Liverpool. The posts about "trying to kill" at Heysel betray the poster's ignorance about events on that night. Liverpool fans were of course a reason for the tragedy but no-one was murdered. Some Liverpool fans were prosecuted for manslaughter and rightly so. Other factors were also important in causing the disaster. I would say that Liverpool does on the whole deal with hooliganism well these days and doesn't have an endemic problem. The club messed up over racism last year and quite badly too, but again it wasn't based on a section of the club's support's long-standing hatred for ethnic minorities. The coach incident linked to here doesn't seem to have anything to do with LFC. Maybe that was Liverpool "fans", or Everton ones or just badly behaved thugs. It doesn't say.
The idea that "he can hardly talk" is bollocks too. Yes, I can - even if all of those things were or are true about my club I'd still have every right to feel how I do about hooliganism and racism.
The event where I saw an anti-racism hoarding jumped up and down it did indeed seem to have been picked especially judging by the offender's actions and movements. I could be wrong there though. I don't mind admitting I can't be completely sure.
I dislike Real Madrid quite a lot and have said so regularly. I have not once "wanked on" about them. I do "wank on" about La Liga in the La Liga thread, which seems fair enough.
While I understand that my view on Millwall is rather extreme and hardly likely to win me a host of fans, I honestly think they're a uniquely bad case for the game and we'd be better off without them. We've years of evidence to look at. Crystal balls don't use evidence to make predictions. I do and I we can safely predict that Millwall will continue to be a problem in the future.
You've come up with a load of facetious answers to my posts and that's fine because if you can't do that on an internet message board where can you do it? Let me ask some serious questions though and you can give me serious answers.
Let's say you're all right and I'm over-reacting, What should we do with Milwall? Just accept that it's okay to have a club that continues to have such entrenched problems with hatred, racism and violence? It seems that the reaction of many is just to say that West Ham or Chelsea are bad too. "The other boy was doing it as well Sir." doesn't seem a good enough excuse to me.
Should we tolerate a certain amount of the problems attached to the club? The big disturbances seem to be only every once every couple of seasons or so these days so maybe that's in the boundaries of the acceptable for other people. Or do we not accept the status quo and do things like fine them more money when things go wrong? Or take other measures that might work? What might those measures be?
Come on, that's a fair response. Help me out.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
fair enough, but only if you're willing to accept that your club should also be disbanded for similar reasons. otherwise, perhaps suggest a sensible option.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
I've already answered that up there. Liverpool doesn't have a serious endemic hooliganism problem or a persistently racist section of support at Anfield. Therefore, I reject your argument and turn your attention back to Millwall who do have an endemic hooliganism problem and racist section of support at the New Den.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yep Millwall have a problem. What about the point made by several posters that Sky are picking on them because they are a small and insignificant club? You've chosen to just ridicule this by saying this is just a version of "the other boy did it too", - that might work if we were 'wall but it's been made by people like me and bromley who basically don't like Millwall. TBH I think your op is daft.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
It's not about their size for me. If Premiership clubs need some more scrutiny then get stuck in. I've already answered that in a previous post so I didn't just choose to ridicule it. It's still tough shit on Millwall if their house isn't in order. By all means get to grips with problems elsewhere too.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Your arguments to suggest their disbanding are laughable though. It's a big community club with a history far worse than it's present. Why let the morons ruin it for the rest of the fans?
It's a good job people didn't have your attitudes post Heysel, eh?
In the same manner? So all football clubs where indivuals are found to display abhorrent behaviour to be disbanded yes?
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Again. I post about Millwall and the answers come back about Heysel which I've already answered. People DID have that attitude about Liverpool in 1985 and we were banned from European competiton for 6 years.
You've not made a great argument there.
Your other point is that the club's past is far worse than its present. Well, that's not much of an argument either.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
No. I didn't say that.
Seriously. There are holes in my argument but is there anyone out there who's prepared to answer sensibly or this what we're getting?
I think people are answering sensibly, but if you insist on holding fast on your opinion in the OP, despite logical arguments against, it's not going to work really
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Tbh I hadn't heard of any trouble at Millwall for donkeys years - I rarely keep my ear to the ground, but the last thing that was noteworthy was a skirmish at Leeds and a bit of a Danny Dyer tear up at West Ham.
Is it really plausible - in this day and age - that it took an undercover lengthy sky expose to highlight this supposedly endemic racist problem there?
Is it really plausible - in this day and age - that it took an undercover lengthy sky expose to highlight this supposedly endemic racist problem there?
The inviduals at all those clubs should nicked and dealt with by the legal system. It's not hard to record the evidence as shown above.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The main "hole" in your argument is it's daft (disband the club or throw them out of the league in the basis of the behaviour of a tiny number of wankers).
The secondary hole is that this would have had your own club thrown out/disbanded several decades ago but for some reason you're not allowing that comparison.
The tertiary hole is that this "utterly shocking" expose by Sky is obviously just them picking on a little club - we may not like the club but Sky's role here is just tabloid bullying - I mean the cameraman allegedly says that this is the "worst he's seen in 35 years of going to football" - o rly? Where was he fucking watching his football in the 1970s and 1980s? I saw worse any time I went to Stamford Bridge in those days. It's just sensationalist horseshit.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
I reject all 3 points.
Firstly, this doesn't concern "a tiny number of wankers". The bad element at Millwall is a significant proportion of the home support. We've seen hundreds of Millwall fans causing trouble at the same time even in the past few years. Remember, I'm not proposing they get an arse-kicking just on the basis of this. I'm suggesting that they are fundamentally rotten and have been for so long that everyone's just got used to it when they shouldn't have done.
Secondly, Liverpool were indeed thrown out of the competition in which their fans contributed to a very major instance of crowd trouble. I have not blocked the comparison at all. I have actually embraced it. I would settle for a fixed-term league ban on Millwall to teach them a lesson.
Thirdly. So what if Sky are "picking" on Millwall? Get the club in shape and no-one will be able to do it. Also, if you build your name on being the bad boys that nobody likes and you end up being famous for it, it's hard luck when a camera crew turn up and catch you doing what like mouthing off about.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
And I refute your rejection
OK we can go round and round on this, especially if you keep tweaking your opinion without admitting it.
1. I've already agreed the wall have a problem but seriously this terrible incident? It's a handful of arseholes - when was the last time they pulled anything major?
2. You've completely changed your position from your op - now you're saying a fixed-term ban. Just as well really since you can't quite explain why Liverpool shouldn't have been disbanded for Heysel.
3. So what if Sky pick on a little club who are the go-to club for cliches about the white working classes and what scum they are? It's cowardly, lazy, prejudicial journalism is what. The fact that it corresponds with your Big Club contempt for Millwall makes you feel good - but me (and I've slagged off Millwall in my time) I still have more sympathy for them as a club than I do for Sky TV journos posing as concerned liberals. Bandwagon-jumping wankers.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
And I refute your rejection
OK we can go round and round on this, especially if you keep tweaking your opinion without admitting it.
1. I've already agreed the wall have a problem but seriously this terrible incident? It's a handful of arseholes - when was the last time they pulled anything major?
2. You've completely changed your position from your op - now you're saying a fixed-term ban. Just as well really since you can't quite explain why Liverpool shouldn't have been disbanded for Heysel.
3. So what if Sky pick on a little club who are the go-to club for cliches about the white working classes and what scum they are? It's cowardly, lazy, prejudicial journalism is what. The fact that it corresponds with your Big Club contempt for Millwall makes you feel good - but me (and I've slagged off Millwall in my time) I still have more sympathy for them as a club than I do for Sky TV journos posing as concerned liberals. Bandwagon-jumping wankers.
I think you've been a bit disingenuous there Co-op employing strawmen and misrepresentation of my position and posts. Although it was admittedly better than the risible attempts of others in the thread.
I'll leave the thread alone now because I've made my point more than once and other people must have a different take on things. To put it another way, nobody agrees with me!
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
The irony being, that your prejudiced stereotyping of Millwall fans as a whole is exactly the same as an ignorant racist's, complete with the knee-jerk reaction along the BNP lines of "all foreigners are rapists/ muggers/drug dealers/ baby eaters... Deport the lot of them".
As mentioned before by other posters, this is tabloid journalism at its worst and is clearly going for a soft target. Racism is a society problem and Millwall has done more than most clubs trying to kick it out.
Get a grip!
Typical scouser... Bet you carry a stanley knife and break into cars... Have another minutes silence this morning did we?.... Blah blah bigoted blah
bi0boy
Power User
Yes. Racism is equally as bad as denigrating football supporters. Well done.
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