Megalithic and Prehistoric Sites

[Artaxerxes]

Proto oppressor?

Personally I think the interpretation is to tight. It’s a very rigid interpretation of the burial through the lens of how we interpret power. Alternative theories are possible and chiefdom is a sliding scale.

Each of those objects could have been placed by a community who respected and revered this man for a variety of reasons, chiefdom being just one of them. He didn’t place them there himself. The dynastic thing is also a reach, those burials are a couple of hundred years apart. The landscape was important and revered and barrows have been reused over the millennia before.

Given the time of discovery I’m also assuming we don’t have the bones or any trace of the man in the burial so… was it a man?

 

[A380]

Personally I think the interpretation is to tight. It’s a very rigid interpretation of the burial through the lens of how we interpret power. Alternative theories are possible and chiefdom is a sliding scale.

Each of those objects could have been placed by a community who respected and revered this man for a variety of reasons, chiefdom being just one of them. He didn’t place them there himself. The dynastic thing is also a reach, those burials are a couple of hundred years apart. The landscape was important and revered and barrows have been reused over the millennia before.

Given the time of discovery I’m also assuming we don’t have the bones or any trace of the man in the burial so… was it a man?

Bernard Cornwall uses the death (murder) of this man as the starting point for his rollicking Stonehenge stand alone novel. Which is well worth a read if you haven't read it.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Bernard Cornwall uses the death (murder) of this man as the starting point for his rollicking Stonehenge stand alone novel. Which is well worth a read if you haven't read it.

Read it ages and ages ago.

 

[A380]

Read it ages and ages ago.

This thread made me re-read it a couple of weeks ago. I think he enjoyed being free of 'history' for a change.

 

[hipipol]

Personally I think the interpretation is to tight. It’s a very rigid interpretation of the burial through the lens of how we interpret power. Alternative theories are possible and chiefdom is a sliding scale.

Each of those objects could have been placed by a community who respected and revered this man for a variety of reasons, chiefdom being just one of them. He didn’t place them there himself. The dynastic thing is also a reach, those burials are a couple of hundred years apart. The landscape was important and revered and barrows have been reused over the millennia before.

Given the time of discovery I’m also assuming we don’t have the bones or any trace of the man in the burial so… was it a man?

Yep deffo a bloke - Bush Barrow - Wikipedia - the Wessex site - Bush Barrow lozenge - Wessex Museums - gives a number of possible roles for the "Chief" - " He must have been important – perhaps a priest, warrior or chief"

 

[JimW]

Read about this find the other day, wasn't aware of the three famous earlier examples found late 19th century, reading around one theory is they were measuring devices that helped with the construction of the megaliths - you wound rope round them to get a standardised length:

Prehistoric drum is top ancient find: British Museum

A carved stone drum unearthed in England is one of the most significant pieces of prehistoric art ever found in the country, the British Museum said Thursday.

phys.org

 

[Artaxerxes]

Yep deffo a bloke - Bush Barrow - Wikipedia - the Wessex site - Bush Barrow lozenge - Wessex Museums - gives a number of possible roles for the "Chief" - " He must have been important – perhaps a priest, warrior or chief"

Time and again we’ve seen skeletons originally defined as male turning out not to be so.

Early archaeologists especially saw what they wanted to see though the discoverer of BB was very much ahead of his time in some respects and quite thorough so I’m more likely to think he was right but there’s still not 100% certainty there.

I’ll try and dig out a decent quote of his I found the other day when I’ve access to a computer - essentially saying “mate we don’t know shit about that far back”

Edit:

And that quotation:

In this group of barrows [the Lake group] our discoveries are in opposition to all systems because these systems are formed from ideas gathered from the limited knowledge we have of past events, and what we in this day consider is consistent with order and the nature of things. But the period in which the Britons raised these sepulchres is so very remote, and our manners and customs so dissimilar that at this day we have few documents to guide us. Therefore almost all our discoveries are at war against preconceived opinions gathered from books, etc.

 

[hipipol]

Time and again we’ve seen skeletons originally defined as male turning out not to be so.

Early archaeologists especially saw what they wanted to see though the discoverer of BB was very much ahead of his time in some respects and quite thorough so I’m more likely to think he was right but there’s still not 100% certainty there.

I’ll try and dig out a decent quote of his I found the other day when I’ve access to a computer - essentially saying “mate we don’t know shit about that far back”

Edit:

And that quotation:

In this group of barrows [the Lake group] our discoveries are in opposition to all systems because these systems are formed from ideas gathered from the limited knowledge we have of past events, and what we in this day consider is consistent with order and the nature of things. But the period in which the Britons raised these sepulchres is so very remote, and our manners and customs so dissimilar that at this day we have few documents to guide us. Therefore almost all our discoveries are at war against preconceived opinions gathered from books, etc.

Where's the quotation from?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Where's the quotation from?

According to the citation list: a letter from Cunnington to Hoare cited in his biography

 

[Voley]

Just back from Dartmoor.

Scorhill Stone Circle this morning.



Spinsters Rock and VICIOUS ATTACK SHEEP.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just back from Dartmoor.

Scorhill Stone Circle this morning.

View attachment 311296

Spinsters Rock and VICIOUS ATTACK SHEEP.

View attachment 311298

so that's what those stones are for, getting out of the reach of the vicious attack sheep

 

[Voley]

so that's what those stones are for, getting out of the reach of the vicious attack sheep

All those years of research into these ancient structures and the answer was "sheep pen" all along.

 

[Pickman's model]

All those years of research into these ancient structures and the answer was "sheep pen" all along.

yeh but think what mischief the archaeologists would have been getting up to if they hadn't been pursuing their theories

 

[Voley]

Tbf there are a few "standing stones" here in Cornwall that are put there by farmers for their cows to scratch themselves. Stops them totalling the hedgerows.

Always fun when someone alleges they're on a leyline.

 

[A380]

Went to the Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum today. It’s very good, it’s not really about Stonehenge specifically but instead looks at the wider civilisations and cultures just before, during and after it’s construction. Lots of artefacts from all over the British Isles and wider Europe, some of which are stunning. One of the points it consistently made was how much trade, contact and migration there was.

The only problem was they seemed to have oversold it as it was very crowded.

It’s £20 for adults but I would recommend it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Dunning witch monument.

As in Dunning near Muckhart?

 

[danny la rouge]

As in Dunning near Muckhart?

Well, it’s the other side of the Ochills from Muckhart. I’d say Dunning near Auchterarder. But, yeah, half an hour from Muckhart.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well, it’s the other side of the Ochills from Muckhart. I’d say Dunning near Auchterarder. But, yeah, half an hour from Muckhart.

Aye. I was trying to think of somewhere close. Rumbling Bridge would be closer.

 

[danny la rouge]

Aye. I was trying to think of somewhere close. Rumbling Bridge would be closer.

Ha, interesting that your minds eye picture seems to ignore the Ochils. I mean, you’re right, but in my minds eye Dunning is in Lower Strathearn on the way to Perth, whereas Rumbling Bridge is on the way out of Clackmannanshire to Glenrothes.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Went to the Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum today. It’s very good, it’s not really about Stonehenge specifically but instead looks at the wider civilisations and cultures just before, during and after it’s construction. Lots of artefacts from all over the British Isles and wider Europe, some of which are stunning. One of the points it consistently made was how much trade, contact and migration there was.

The only problem was they seemed to have oversold it as it was very crowded.

It’s £20 for adults but I would recommend it.

This is a consistent problem with the museum exhibits, they are always absolutely fucking rammed. The Viking one put me right off going for like a year.

If I go it's to the ten am opening slots if possible just because otherwise your certain or miss something or feel harried.

Anyway, the book of the exhibit is also very good and worth picking up. The museum also recently updated Collection Online so you should be able to get good views of most of the exhibits (not sure about the borrowed ones)

I was really happy to see the Sky Disc, didn't expect to see it outside of an imaginary trip to Germany.

 

[danny la rouge]

This is a consistent problem with the museum exhibits, they are always absolutely fucking rammed. The Viking one put me right off going for like a year.

If I go it's to the ten am opening slots if possible just because otherwise your certain or miss something or feel harried.

Anyway, the book of the exhibit is also very good and worth picking up. The museum also recently updated Collection Online so you should be able to get good views of most of the exhibits (not sure about the borrowed ones)

I was really happy to see the Sky Disc, didn't expect to see it outside of an imaginary trip to Germany.

I won’t be in London to see the exhibition but I’d be interested in the book you mention. Is it obtainable from the British Museum shop?

 

[Artaxerxes]

I won’t be in London to see the exhibition but I’d be interested in the book you mention. Is it obtainable from the British Museum shop?

Yeah, 25 for softcover. Don't get hardcover like I nearly did.

 

[danny la rouge]

Woah, £35. Need to have a think about that.

Ah, crossposted. A softcover you say. Cool.

 

[Voley]

The book's ace. My OH is going to the exhibition and I was half-tempted to make the trek.

 

[ska invita]

Sad to say that the author of this piece passed away yesterday. A fine Marxist historian and archaeologist. RIP.

good obit this

Neil Faulkner obituary

Archaeologist who explored the histories of a Norfolk village and of TE Lawrence in the Middle East

www.theguardian.com

 

[planetgeli]

A bit broken down but Arthur's Stone (Maen Ceti), on the Gower, apparently the site of a 2500BC burial chamber.

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[ska invita]

i watch a lot of John Rogers walking videos - theyre mainly on London but I like it when he goes to the home counties
a few days ago he went to North Kent Downs to visitColdrum Long Barrow & the Lost Village of Dode
Long Barrow really old - 6,000 years old in fact -
have never set foot in that little area of Kent, going to do that soon
another ancient chalk ridgeway?

 

[Brainaddict]

I love Coldrum Long Barrow. One of those neolithic sites that has a great view despite not being on a hilltop.

 

[Koknbul]

Love this 90s website... Includes what looks like a thorough map of UK megalithic sites

World-wide Ancient Site Database, Photos and Prehistoric Archaeology News with geolocation : The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map:

www.megalithic.co.uk

Megalithic pictures, experiences, recommendations and chat.

Posting it here as it's History.

I had a great experience the other day, will post it up soon, can't from phone.

i love your enthusiasm