Scottish velar fricative change by age, gender and class in Glasgow - hypothesis

[maomao]

It's a palatal fricative, as opposed to a velar fricative.

Which means it happens on the soft palate above where you make an 'ee' sound and not on the velar palate back where you make 'k' and 'g' sounds.

 

[Sue]

It is according to Danny's observations.

Well their parents and grandparents (who're also likely WC) are no doubt still pronouncing ch properly (as are young WC women) so maybe they just want to sound different.

I say 'lake' these days anyway.

 

[Silas Loom]

Which means it happens on the soft palate above where you make an 'ee' sound and not on the velar palate back where you make 'k' and 'g' sounds.

View attachment 445293

You and ouirdeaux have given me a sore throat through experimenting with fricatives. I hope you’re happy.

 

[maomao]

Well their parents and grandparents (who're also likely WC) are no doubt still pronouncing ch properly (as are young WC women) so maybe they just want to sound different.

I say 'lake' these days anyway.

I did say 'may be' and list a couple of possibilities. But yes, accents are about sounding different from non group members.

 

[maomao]

You and ouirdeaux have given me a sore throat through experimenting with fricatives. I hope you’re happy.

Try some pharyngeals and see how that goes.

 

[Silas Loom]

Try some pharyngeals and see how that goes.

Sticking with Difflam thanks.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well their parents and grandparents (who're also likely WC) are no doubt still pronouncing ch properly (as are young WC women) so maybe they just want to sound different.

Well that’s another hypothesis. Language change is a constant process, though. The Glasgow accent of today isn’t the same as the one in the 70s you hear on Billy Connolly records of that time.

What interested me most, and what I should have made an actual hypothesis out of, was my gender observation. I’d like to know if it stands up.

 

[starfish]

As a working class urban Glaswegian, ill have a think about this.

 

[quimcunx]

I say loch and Bach, but patriarcky, synckronise and zurick. How do you say monarchy?

Fairly sure I've never heard my dad say patriarchy or Zurich. I'll have to trich him into saying monarchy.

 

[danny la rouge]

As a working class urban Glaswegian, ill have a think about this.

You’re auld, though.

 

[danny la rouge]

I say loch and Bach, but patriarcky, synckronise and zurick. How do you say monarchy?

Fairly sure I've never heard my dad say patriarchy or Zurich. I'll have to trich him into saying monarchy.

Monarchy. But I say Anarkist.

 

[starfish]

You’re auld, though.

Thats true, sadly. And ive not lived their for 31 years.

 

[danny la rouge]

Thats true, sadly. And ive not lived their for 31 years.

Phone a hoodie.

 

[petee]

This is startling and I would like to see a study done.

have you applied for a grant?

 

[danny la rouge]

have you applied for a grant?

Many times. But not for this! I’m too auld, too ill, and too out of employment.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I stopped responding to my grandson due to his lazy linguistics. He got the message.

The English say 'lock' because they know no better, for a Scot to do it is a cigarette and blindfold matter.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well their parents and grandparents (who're also likely WC) are no doubt still pronouncing ch properly (as are young WC women) so maybe they just want to sound different.

I say 'lake' these days anyway.

Only one in Scotland.

 

[danny la rouge]

Only one in Scotland.

It’s Loch Innis Mo Cholmaig in Gaelic, and the legend goes that the English name was a misunderstanding by a Dutch cartographer that stuck.

Interesting exception, though.

Footnote: I’ve walked across it twice.

 

[JimW]

The Plain People of Ireland: Isn’t the German very like the Irish? Very guttural and so on?

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: People do say that the German language and the Irish language is very guttural tongues.

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: The sounds is all guttural do you understand.

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: Very guttural languages the pair of them, the Gaelic and the German.

 

[teuchter]

I say loch and Bach, but patriarcky, synckronise and zurick.

Same here except I'd say Zurich.

I think the rule is that if there's a vowel before it, it's ch, and if not it's ck.

 

[weepiper]

Same here except I'd say Zurich.

I think the rule is that if there's a vowel before it, it's ch, and if not it's ck.

I think this is pretty much the same as me. Although I would pronounce the one in Sanquhar.

 

[teuchter]

I think this is pretty much the same as me. Although I would pronounce the one in Sanquhar.

If it's quh then I'll pronounce it ch not ck.

So maybe the vowel rule doesn't apply to quh.

eg also Urquhart.

 

[danny la rouge]

If it's quh then I'll pronounce it ch not ck.

So maybe the vowel rule doesn't apply to quh.

eg also Urquhart.

Although Balquhidder is Bal-whidder.

 

[petee]

It’s Loch Innis Mo Cholmaig

looked it up.

There war nae results matchin the speirin.

better luck!

'S e loch ann an Alba a tha ann an Loch Innis Mo Cholmaig no Loch a' Phuirt[1] (Beurla: Lake of Menteith, ron 20mh linn Loch of Menteith).[2] Tha e suidhichte air àird an ear Obar Phuill. 'S e seo na co-chomharran aige: 56° 10′ 0″ Tuath agus 4° 17′ 0″ Iar.

 

[Idris2002]

The Plain People of Ireland: Isn’t the German very like the Irish? Very guttural and so on?

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: People do say that the German language and the Irish language is very guttural tongues.

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: The sounds is all guttural do you understand.

Myself: Yes.

The Plain People of Ireland: Very guttural languages the pair of them, the Gaelic and the German.

This is actually true. My boss in Germany once said that I speak German „wie ein Preußische militar-offiziere“

 

[ouirdeaux]

I take it his command of German was shaky as well?

 

[danny la rouge]

This is actually true. My boss in Germany once said that I speak German „wie ein Preußische militar-offiziere“

On the other hand, when in Italy speaking Italian, people keep asking if I’m German.

 

[19sixtysix]

As I'm in the Gorbals I will have alisten for this.

 

[19sixtysix]

And given mate has been entered into the language up here via fuckin Eastenders it wouldn't surprise me. The BBC has done its best to destroy the accents across the country.

 

[maomao]

And given mate has been entered into the language up here via fuckin Eastenders it wouldn't surprise me. The BBC has done its best to destroy the accents across the country.

You say that but every other show on cbeebies is in regional accents (I don't watch grown up BBC). Having lived in a country where anyone who doesn't have the correct accent gets subtitles on the telly. I think the BC, paedo-toffs though they may be, have done more than most national broadcasters to recognise a variety of dialects.